| Author |
Message |
ratsnotmice
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2014
Posts: 64
Location: Mena, AR
|
 Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:30 pm Post subject: dyno results |
 |
|
Submitted for your approval.
1776cc
Engle 100
Stock dp heads-minor ported
8.3 ;1 compression
1-1/2" merged header
CB Perf. Gen 1 CFI 48mm throttle bodies, 24lb/hr injectors
I kind of disregard the crank values--but the wheel power was suprising! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4343
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
| Those are BIG ass TBs for that engine! What happens when you crack the throttle plates? I want to see a graph. You know CB can give you 40mm twin bodies instead of 48s. Even a set of 40s is like having 48 IDFs on your engine though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ALB
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2008
Posts: 3483
Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
More important- how does it drive?
_________________
On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
| bugguy1967 wrote: |
| Those are BIG ass TBs for that engine! What happens when you crack the throttle plates |
The gas gauge moves 
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ratsnotmice
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2014
Posts: 64
Location: Mena, AR
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:05 am Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
| bugguy1967 wrote: |
| Those are BIG ass TBs for that engine! What happens when you crack the throttle plates? I want to see a graph. You know CB can give you 40mm twin bodies instead of 48s. Even a set of 40s is like having 48 IDFs on your engine though. |
The throttle bodies do have 40mm custom made venturis installed for better part throttle resolution. However one must be sincere when getting into the throttle.
Graph posted here.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ratsnotmice
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2014
Posts: 64
Location: Mena, AR
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:09 am Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
| ALB wrote: |
| More important- how does it drive? |
It's really a blast to drive! But as I said before you have to be sincere when you get into the throttle.
This car runs and drives like it is on rails!
Next step is to remove the dinosaur CB gen1 ECU and replace it with a Megasquirt unit from the DubShop. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ratsnotmice
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2014
Posts: 64
Location: Mena, AR
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:13 am Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
| Glenn wrote: |
| bugguy1967 wrote: |
| Those are BIG ass TBs for that engine! What happens when you crack the throttle plates |
The gas gauge moves |
Yup, $$$$$$$$--Especially since I run a 50/50 mix of pump premium(no ethanol) and Phillips TT111L race gas.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ratsnotmice
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2014
Posts: 64
Location: Mena, AR
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:22 am Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
A couple of pic of my car at the shop.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3470
Location: Charleston, SC
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:01 am Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
| ratsnotmice wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| bugguy1967 wrote: |
| Those are BIG ass TBs for that engine! What happens when you crack the throttle plates |
The gas gauge moves |
Yup, $$$$$$$$--Especially since I run a 50/50 mix of pump premium(no ethanol) and Phillips TT111L race gas. |
Is there a particular reason why? Your engine combo should tune just fine (and probably run better...) on 87 octane.
Also, I'm completely at a loss to understand the 'sincerity' of your throttle response. That's the first time I've heard this phrasing, and perhaps its meaning might be obvious if you were putting 400 HP down to the wheels...but at 78 HP (which is still respectable for a very, very mild engine), I'm confused about what sincerity has to do with it.
Otherwise, good job and good luck with the MS swap!
_________________
| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanillagurilla
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017
Posts: 1061
Location: California
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
| My dyno calculator is actually really close to your actual numbers, glad it's fairly accurate. You could bump the hp a bit with some 1.25 rockers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
a venturi doesn't change the size of the throttle plates. Your engine is at max airflow at like 20% throttle opening.
_________________
It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ratsnotmice
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2014
Posts: 64
Location: Mena, AR
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
| Stripped66 wrote: |
| ratsnotmice wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| bugguy1967 wrote: |
| Those are BIG ass TBs for that engine! What happens when you crack the throttle plates |
The gas gauge moves |
Yup, $$$$$$$$--Especially since I run a 50/50 mix of pump premium(no ethanol) and Phillips TT111L race gas. |
Is there a particular reason why? Your engine combo should tune just fine (and probably run better...) on 87 octane.
Also, I'm completely at a loss to understand the 'sincerity' of your throttle response. That's the first time I've heard this phrasing, and perhaps its
meaning might be obvious if you were putting 400 HP down to the wheels...but at 78 HP (which is still respectable for a very, very mild engine), I'm confused about what sincerity has to do with it.
Otherwise, good job and good luck with the MS swap! |
Regarding the fuel, I am still a disciple of Gene Berg and feel need for more knock resistance. And with the old school semi heads running a lot of advance is necessary. I know quite well the toll knock will take on our acvws
When first taking off or after gear change I have found it helpful to be brisk with accelerator, otherwise due to the oversized TB's there can be significant bog, spitting, etc. So being sincere with the pedal makes for a more pleasant and fun driving experience. In other words when you want to go, STEP on the accelerator. With a big power engine you can just ease into the throttle and it will pull for sure.
John, you are correct, however my back to back drive testing indicates a little better drivability.
Thanks everyone for being interested, I enjoy being able to contribute something as I usually just lurk and read. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ps2375
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 2471
Location: Meridian,ID
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
| Your first post says Stock heads, then you say semi-hemi heads, which is it? And only 8.3 cr, there is no need to worry about knock. I have a pair of old school SCS heads with the semi-hemi @ 8.6 cr and it is just fine with regular fuel. It'll be going to about 9.3cr when it goes back together this spring and I'll prolly run 89 or 91 octane in it. Should be just fine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ratsnotmice
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2014
Posts: 64
Location: Mena, AR
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
| ps2375 wrote: |
| Your first post says Stock heads, then you say semi-hemi heads, which is it? And only 8.3 cr, there is no need to worry about knock. I have a pair of old school SCS heads with the semi-hemi @ 8.6 cr and it is just fine with regular fuel. It'll be going to about 9.3cr when it goes back together this spring and I'll prolly run 89 or 91 octane in it. Should be just fine. |
It's both ; ) Stock Vw dual port heads, ports cleaned up some, new guides, three angle valve job, dual springs, semi-hemi chambers.
From an airflow and by extension, power perspective--stock.
9.3--cool, what cam will you use? How much timing do you find your heads need? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
I am always surprised when I hear people still using semi-hemi heads.
seems like you're leaving a lot of power and drivability on the table with this engine set up?
_________________
drive your split. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ps2375
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 2471
Location: Meridian,ID
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
My motor was built by my father back in the late 80's, so the heads were bought in the 80's, as was the rest of it. The case was machined by Bernie Bergman to accept Ford hydro lifters and has a Weber H535 cam in it. Along with a HEI dist and dual 44 IDF's. And a few other items that are NLA or really hard to find anymore.
I think I set it up for about 30* all in around 3K rpm. It is a 90X82(2087) and in this tune made 114whp. It might take more timing, but I haven't tried.
I am planning for an SLR cam and the bump in CR if life doessn't get in the way, which it is trying to do currently. So, we'll see.
Anyway, don't want to hijack someone else's thread. The car is a bit of a time machine for me and I've had it back on the road for 2 yrs after it sat for 20. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ratsnotmice
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2014
Posts: 64
Location: Mena, AR
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:18 pm Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
| ps2375 wrote: |
The car is a bit of a time machine for me and I've had it back on the road for 2 yrs after it sat for 20. |
Kind of my situation. This car and engine was built by someone who gave it some thought, and than sat unhappy and alone for a few years after some squirrel installed a Weber progressive.
I discovered upon partial tear down the engine was built with all berg parts(hence the semihemi heads), including a genuine berg counterweight modified stock crank. I replaced the rust pitted cylinders and rings, freshened up the heads. Set the deck for zero, and used a .040 copper sealing ring(it had about .080 piston in the hole if I remember).
I then added the CB CFI that I bought new in about 2000 and had yet to use, installed a berg 1-1/2 merged header.
This engine has turned out to be the best running engine I have ever had, and I have built a lot of engines. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
it probably does run well. some of us are just wondering how much better it could run with some parts more suited to the long block (and some heads with squish)
_________________
drive your split. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ps2375
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 2471
Location: Meridian,ID
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
Mine sat after being driven regular for about 50K miles or so. It made one or trips from AZ to Michigan and since my brother lived near our father, he drove the shit out of it when he could get his hands on it. My father parked it when other cars came into picture and then life got in the way. I had to source one very rare 90mm NPR jug for it and that was about it. BTW, it has an Okrasa crank in it, dad bought sometime in the early 80's and sat on it till he built this motor.
As it sits now, it has a ton (.070") of deck, I'll be closing it to .035". I did add a 1 5/8" merged header with a Hide-away muffler.
On my dyno runs, it peaked at around 5500 rpm, but I ran each one out to 7K rpm, cause it could.
If you want, I can post the sheet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ratsnotmice
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2014
Posts: 64
Location: Mena, AR
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:34 am Post subject: Re: dyno results |
|
|
| sled wrote: |
| it probably does run well. some of us are just wondering how much better it could run with some parts more suited to the long block (and some heads with squish) |
For sure it would run better! I would like to try some panchitos or an equivalent head from Roy at Mofoco.
I certainly agree with everyone about the semi-hemi thing. I know the benefits of tight quench/squish. For now I will do the best with what I have. And I am surprised how well it ran on the dyno.
The semihemi style chamber in my experience, run with "higher" compression(more than 7-7.3), and with the required ignition advance, 35-40 or more can start to knock before a more conventional squish chamber, with a lower octane fuel. I remember seeing this phenomenon in the early 90's and Gene confirmed my observation during a phone conversation.
For now though, I'll get the Megasquirt installed and running, then see what's next. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
