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Guido Orefice Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2018 Posts: 4 Location: NH & VT
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:41 am Post subject: Carb vs fuel injection |
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What are the differences from a maintenance and performance perspective with carburetor vs fuel injection type 1 engine?
I'm in the market for a '68 - 79 Beetle. I have experience with carb engines on '67 through '74.
Gracias |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20379 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Carb vs fuel injection |
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For performance EFI will probably be in whole different league than carbs....BUT there is a learning curve to EFI becasue of many different variables involved as you are electronically adjusting the fuel/air mixture...
These guys are a little deeper into EFI than most Samaites...
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewforum.php?f=23&sid=b5c8796c66fb4a3076fad8f4ece60efc
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51146 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Carb vs fuel injection |
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Are we discussing aftermarket systems?, or bone stock L-jet from the factory? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Guido Orefice Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2018 Posts: 4 Location: NH & VT
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Carb vs fuel injection |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Are we discussing aftermarket systems?, or bone stock L-jet from the factory? |
Assume stock. I like as close to stock as possible. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51146 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Carb vs fuel injection |
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OK then, the FI offers slightly better performance and fuel economy (if you can keep your foot out of it )
Maintenance is painless, there's great factory manuals for troubleshooting and as long as you have a volt/ohm meter and fuel pressure gauge and can read almost anyone can figure it out, it's a very simple system.
You will have to reverse almost 50 years of neglect, perished hoses and seals make vacuum leaks that mess with it, and wires and terminals get weak from age and use, get all that under control (usually ~$150 in parts) and it's ready for another few decades of neglect. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20379 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Carb vs fuel injection |
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Guido Orefice wrote: |
busdaddy wrote: |
Are we discussing aftermarket systems?, or bone stock L-jet from the factory? |
Assume stock. I like as close to stock as possible. |
So you want to deal with 40+ year old components that may or may not be replaceable and a system that may only be 50% as efficient as "modern" systems...
If you are determined to have stock appearance, get this kit, which you will also have to get the FI alternator stand.. ...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=519841
And hang a Megasquirt brain on it....
https://www.diyautotune.com/
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Last edited by Dale M. on Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Brian Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 8340 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Carb vs fuel injection |
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Depends, how cheap are you and what's your time worth? _________________ Wash your hands
'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
Only losers litter |
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77charger Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2005 Posts: 1492
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Carb vs fuel injection |
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$$ vs $$$$
IMO learn to properly tune carbs and you will still run good or break out the wallet.
Im no expert in carb tuning but my buggy with 44s starts,idles,doesnt sputter and feels smooth without fouling plugs. _________________ Click to view image
Bugpack 4 seater rail
2275 built by me
Auto linea alm case,82 dpr crank wedgemated by DK machine
cb 5.4 h beams,12 pound DPR f/w,Slr xv294cam,cb straight cuts,hpmx 44s,40x35 heads ported by brothers machine |
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theKbStockpiler Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Rust Belt
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Carb vs fuel injection |
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A lot depends on the pool of cars to choose from. Is there even a FI car for sale near you? FI is going to be more expensive if you have to repair it. I think dual carbs are fine as long as the engine does not have to go through a long warm up cycle. _________________ My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26787 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Carb vs fuel injection |
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Maintenence? hardly any in either case, when everything is working right.
More like REPAIR to get there. The old Fuel injections systems are ok, but they are old.....just really old, and not a lot of people know how to fix them.
If you know somebody who can fix em up, then go for it.
Which am I talking about? both!
Go with whatever you have the ability to work with. |
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PumaVW79 Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2012 Posts: 487 Location: WGS84: 22.9083° S, 43.1964° W
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Carb vs fuel injection |
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Carbs are simpler, that is indisputable. |
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Bugsy61 Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2011 Posts: 256 Location: Peoria, Illinois
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Carb vs fuel injection |
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I used to have to work on the old L Jetronic once in a while when I was a Volvo mechanic. Not a fan. You will almost certainly need four new fuel nozzles (injectors) and the last I saw, if you can find them, they wanted $50 per nozzle, so find them before you decide on buying a system. That alone will put you nearly half way toward a pair of HPMX carbs with manifolds and linkage.
Since we're on this subject, the Megasquirt guys brag about how they don't have to spend all that time swapping jets on a nice Spring day, but they forget to mention that they spent all winter soldering tiny little widgets to a circuit board. I've got both, so I can run my big mouth. |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: Carb vs fuel injection |
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Bugsy61 wrote: |
I used to have to work on the old L Jetronic once in a while when I was a Volvo mechanic. Not a fan. You will almost certainly need four new fuel nozzles (injectors) and the last I saw, if you can find them, they wanted $50 per nozzle, so find them before you decide on buying a system. That alone will put you nearly half way toward a pair of HPMX carbs with manifolds and linkage.
Since we're on this subject, the Megasquirt guys brag about how they don't have to spend all that time swapping jets on a nice Spring day, but they forget to mention that they spent all winter soldering tiny little widgets to a circuit board. I've got both, so I can run my big mouth. |
Mario can solder those widgets with his eyes closed. A lot faster than most anyone......
I happen to be fairly good on a grader. I just work a couple hours of OT and let him do what he does best...... _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5481 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: Carb vs fuel injection |
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A properly working L-jetronic fuel injected late model Bug drives nicer than any stock carbureted Bug. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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sawed off Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2016 Posts: 428 Location: Idaho
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Carb vs fuel injection |
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EVfun wrote: |
A properly working L-jetronic fuel injected late model Bug drives nicer than any stock carbureted Bug. |
x2 Love the L jet now that it works right. Takes time and patience, Not to much money if you can do it yourself. Find parts on ebay etc. |
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Eaallred Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2003 Posts: 5756 Location: West Valley City, Utah
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Carb vs fuel injection |
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If the goal is stock performance, the stock L-jet is tough to beat. I played with that system a lot on my old 79 and it was super simple and easy to tweak (just turn the big toothed wheel in the AFM to adjust the air/fuel under full load.
No jets to plug up, great economy, smooth acceleration from idle all the way up. If it's all there and working, a carb is no comparison. Problem is they are old systems and god knows now many "mechanics" have tinkered with them and screwed them up. Usually screwed up by the same "mechanics" that call the system junk, lol. _________________ Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
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Krochus Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2017 Posts: 892 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Carb vs fuel injection |
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If I had a J jet equipped VW I would chop out and remove everything at the first sign of trouble retaining only the plumbing and certain hard parts that would be incorporated in a microsquirt v3 conversion
BTDT with regard to old archaic Bosch EFI in Datsun Z cars.
Nope nope nope and nope |
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