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Vanillagurilla
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017
Posts: 1061
Location: California
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 Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:39 pm Post subject: Need tie rod help |
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| Anyone know what size tie rods I need for a 6in wider beam using the stock steering box? I'd also like to convert it over to heims in the process. |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12861
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Need tie rod help |
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Why are you worried about what size the tie rods are if plan on using heim joints? Unless you're carving a chunk out of the frame head or removing it all together, you will probably end up bending or binding the passenger side tierod on hard right/full droop.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Vanillagurilla
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017
Posts: 1061
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Need tie rod help |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Why are you worried about what size the tie rods are if plan on using heim joints? Unless you're carving a chunk out of the frame head or removing it all together, you will probably end up bending or binding the passenger side tierod on hard right/full droop. |
I can clearance the frame head a little bit but I plan on using limit straps as well. I'll be removing the frame head and tubing the front end this summer when I can ride the motorcycle to work as well as pushing the front end out 4 inches to make room for longer arms later. I also want to use heims so I can re use them later on when I put the rack in after tubing the front end. I have a set of steel ball joint to link pin adapters that will get welded to the frame head for now so I can get the beam on and the old beam to a new home since space is tight for me at home. I will be using the stock steering box for now as I gather parts, tools and materials. |
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cbeck
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014
Posts: 2495
Location: high ridge, mo
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Need tie rod help |
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Once you know the thread on the heim, look for the proper threaded bung. The figure out what size tubing is needed to weld the bung into. Mock it up as cheap as possible (pvc conduit) and check for clearance while cycling suspension. 3" longer on each side? Heim might be shaped/threaded differently than a tie rod end?
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My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779 |
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Vanillagurilla
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017
Posts: 1061
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Need tie rod help |
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| cbeck wrote: |
| Once you know the thread on the heim, look for the proper threaded bung. The figure out what size tubing is needed to weld the bung into. Mock it up as cheap as possible (pvc conduit) and check for clearance while cycling suspension. 3" longer on each side? Heim might be shaped/threaded differently than a tie rod end? |
Then I have to buy a tap just for that and materials, I thought 6in over beams were common enough that they would make longer tie rods for them. Guess I was wrong. |
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cbeck
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014
Posts: 2495
Location: high ridge, mo
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Need tie rod help |
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After spending good money for the longer al tie rods, centered rack, I then had to have them shortened on the rh side and drilled/tapped. Was told they work with up to a 8" over beam. For less money I could have made 3 and had a spare. This place has a lot of neat shit.
https://www.aa-mfg.com
_________________
My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779 |
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Therealkoop
Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2016
Posts: 78
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Need tie rod help |
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| Did you ever locate what you were looking for? I am in the same exact boat right now. |
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jsturtlebuggy
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005
Posts: 4496
Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Need tie rod help |
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You could use your stock tie rods by cutting them in have and slipping a longer piece of 1in tubing over the halves and welding them back together for now.
Make sure to do plug welds too.
I have done this on many play cars over the years. I have even done it for a street for a buggy I used on the street for many years with out problems.
Then when you get your rack you can figure out what length tie rods for using heims.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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earthquake
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008
Posts: 3984
Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Need tie rod help |
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How come nobody builds a steering system with a Center link and a Idler arm? that way you can use the same length tie rods.
Casey
_________________
74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
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Therealkoop
Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2016
Posts: 78
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:34 am Post subject: Re: Need tie rod help |
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| jsturtlebuggy wrote: |
You could use your stock tie rods by cutting them in have and slipping a longer piece of 1in tubing over the halves and welding them back together for now.
Make sure to do plug welds too.
I have done this on many play cars over the years. I have even done it for a street for a buggy I used on the street for many years with out problems.
Then when you get your rack you can figure out what length tie rods for using heims. |
That is actually my current plan unless I find something else. Plug welds for sure. |
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superpro56
Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2012
Posts: 206
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Need tie rod help |
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Why make it more difficult than it needs to be?
Cheap rack, mount welded in the center of the beam, heims on both ends of equal size tie rods. I used threaded hex aluminum for my tie rods on a +6 beam and 4x1 arms, but you could do it way cheaper with tubing and 4 threaded bungs. |
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Fenix
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2016
Posts: 468
Location: St Louis
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:32 am Post subject: Re: Need tie rod help |
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| cbeck wrote: |
After spending good money for the longer al tie rods, centered rack, I then had to have them shortened on the rh side and drilled/tapped. Was told they work with up to a 8" over beam. For less money I could have made 3 and had a spare. This place has a lot of neat shit.
https://www.aa-mfg.com |
Don't even want to think about the $$$ spent between AA and Tough Gear over the years...between trucks, carts, and refabbing old odysseys and pilots...and now bringing this new addiction back to life. |
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Vanillagurilla
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017
Posts: 1061
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Need tie rod help |
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| superpro56 wrote: |
Why make it more difficult than it needs to be?
Cheap rack, mount welded in the center of the beam, heims on both ends of equal size tie rods. I used threaded hex aluminum for my tie rods on a +6 beam and 4x1 arms, but you could do it way cheaper with tubing and 4 threaded bungs. |
Well I was trying to get the beam on without having to move the gas tank and build a new steering shaft but that's what's going to happen anyway along with cutting off the panhead and tubing the front of the car from the roll cage. Just have to wait for my uncle to get his welder to his house and the bender from his brother. My beam is like yours already but with stock arms.
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earthquake
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008
Posts: 3984
Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: Need tie rod help |
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| Vanillagurilla wrote: |
| superpro56 wrote: |
Why make it more difficult than it needs to be?
Cheap rack, mount welded in the center of the beam, heims on both ends of equal size tie rods. I used threaded hex aluminum for my tie rods on a +6 beam and 4x1 arms, but you could do it way cheaper with tubing and 4 threaded bungs. |
Well I was trying to get the beam on without having to move the gas tank and build a new steering shaft but that's what's going to happen anyway along with cutting off the panhead and tubing the front of the car from the roll cage. Just have to wait for my uncle to get his welder to his house and the bender from his brother. My beam is like yours already but with stock arms.
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You might be able to build some thing with two sprockets and a chain, you even change the ratio and make the steering faster or slower.
Casey
_________________
74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
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Vanillagurilla
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017
Posts: 1061
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:59 am Post subject: Re: Need tie rod help |
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| earthquake wrote: |
| Vanillagurilla wrote: |
| superpro56 wrote: |
Why make it more difficult than it needs to be?
Cheap rack, mount welded in the center of the beam, heims on both ends of equal size tie rods. I used threaded hex aluminum for my tie rods on a +6 beam and 4x1 arms, but you could do it way cheaper with tubing and 4 threaded bungs. |
Well I was trying to get the beam on without having to move the gas tank and build a new steering shaft but that's what's going to happen anyway along with cutting off the panhead and tubing the front of the car from the roll cage. Just have to wait for my uncle to get his welder to his house and the bender from his brother. My beam is like yours already but with stock arms.
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You might be able to build some thing with two sprockets and a chain, you even change the ratio and make the steering faster or slower.
Casey |
That sounds like a terrible idea lol might as well mount a servo motor and make it steer by wire. I'm gathering parts for the front end build slowly over the next month or so. I'll probly end up doing it this summer at my uncle's house where it's well over 100 degrees during the day and 80 at night. |
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earthquake
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008
Posts: 3984
Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: Need tie rod help |
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| Vanillagurilla wrote: |
| earthquake wrote: |
| Vanillagurilla wrote: |
| superpro56 wrote: |
Why make it more difficult than it needs to be?
Cheap rack, mount welded in the center of the beam, heims on both ends of equal size tie rods. I used threaded hex aluminum for my tie rods on a +6 beam and 4x1 arms, but you could do it way cheaper with tubing and 4 threaded bungs. |
Well I was trying to get the beam on without having to move the gas tank and build a new steering shaft but that's what's going to happen anyway along with cutting off the panhead and tubing the front of the car from the roll cage. Just have to wait for my uncle to get his welder to his house and the bender from his brother. My beam is like yours already but with stock arms.
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You might be able to build some thing with two sprockets and a chain, you even change the ratio and make the steering faster or slower.
Casey |
That sounds like a terrible idea lol might as well mount a servo motor and make it steer by wire. I'm gathering parts for the front end build slowly over the next month or so. I'll probly end up doing it this summer at my uncle's house where it's well over 100 degrees during the day and 80 at night. |
Only a 100°, I have lived in the middle of the Nevada desert for 49 years, I know about heat. I love when somebody says to me "But its a dry heat" I tell them so is a oven! And I was joking about the sprocket thing.
Casey
_________________
74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: Need tie rod help |
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Well since you live in Sandy Valley, next time I'm in Primm, I'll toss a rock over the hill at ya!  
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Therealkoop
Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2016
Posts: 78
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Need tie rod help |
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| Ended up just ordering the HD rack and ford/international pre fabbed tie rods. Costs a lot more but at least I dont have a solid shaft pointing at my face anymore in case of collision. |
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