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TomWesty Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007 Posts: 3482 Location: Wyoming,USA
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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neena wrote: |
busdaddy wrote: |
D/A/N wrote: |
busdaddy wrote: |
D/A/N wrote: |
Should we remove this crap or what? |
Hell yeah!, that stuff is nothing but trouble. |
What to replace it with? Sound deadening sheets or closed cell foam? |
Something that allows a little air to circulate between it and the outside metal, condensation builds up in that spray foam and bad things happen. |
Been looking around at options and have a question: is the purpose of material adhered to the outer layer of metal for sound deadening, insulation, or a little bit of both? |
It depends on the material, but usually a little bit of both. Some lean more toward being thermal insulators and some lean more toward acoustic damping. _________________ If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music! |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2227 Location: 11222
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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Well, we haven't solved our foam issue and probably won't until the spring. It seems like something to deal with on 70* instead of 40* days. But we did make some progress on one of our winterizing tasks over the weekend: we've gotten a great seal on the previously drafty as hell fresh air flaps. We'd already tried replacing one of the seals with a new one from WCM but the new seal wasn't much thicker than the tired old one and it didn't make much of a difference for sealing.
Last trip we took, it was in the low 30's outside. We're down to one heater box b/c the other one smells like it's venting pure exhaust into the cabin as soon as we pull the lever. With 50% heat, these drafty flaps made for some really cold hands and heads in the front of the bus, even with the gas heater on. We found a thread somewhere on this forum that suggested taping the flaps up for the winter (which we did to get home without freezing on that last trip) but which also suggested using insulation to get a better seal on the flaps. Here's the insulation we used. The two sides of it easily split apart. One piece goes on the flap, the other on the body.
The stuff is backed with adhesive, but we used some 3M weatherstripping adhesive just in case. Again, split the insulation down the middle and one strip goes here between the OG seal and the part of the flap body which is otherwise unsealed
And the other strip goes around the opening which the flap covers
And here's how both pieces look (yes we made the flap seal fit a bit better). We then did a mild adjustment at one of the flap adjustment rods because it still wasn't closing all the way. Took a ride on the highway today and there was NO DRAFT for the first time ever. I daresay that once we get our new heater box on the bus that we might not even need the BN4 all the time!
_________________ '69 Fuel Injected Squareback. "B" D-jet. 1600 with balanced rotating assembly and lightened flywheel. Full flow and external filter.
'70 Riviera. 1904cc w/ 40mm Dellortos, 019 distributor, Steve Tims “super stock” 37x32 heads, Web Cam 218, Vintage Speed SS143 Super Speed exhaust, 1 1/2” heater boxes |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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Nice!, another option is to hit up your local sign shop for some of that sheet magnet stuff they use for signs on truck doors, if you splurge they can print it with a matching color or some other graphic you might find fun.
Stick it over the entire vent grill, no more drafts. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2227 Location: 11222
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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Over the last few months, we've gotten our hands on 2/3 of a NOS exhaust system.....a Leistritz muffler and a NOS VW heater box. Since last winter, With the heat on, the interior smelled horrible and the readout on our portable CO meter steadily climbed....not into the alarm zone but it was still un-nerving. Since the dash levers each open one heater box, we were able to figure out that the passenger side box was the offending one. The accordion tube and whatnot else were all okay but the box itself isn't in the best shape.
Here's the muffler
And two shots of the heater boxes side-by-side. Note how the outer "shell" of the old one is really worn away around each end of the exhaust pipe. Perfect entry point for exhaust to get into the heating air.
With the muffler off, we also figured we'd investigate something that's been perplexing us for a while: why in a motor with no discernible end play do we still have less than 10 psi per 1,000 rpms on the highway? Using 20W-50 all summer got us pretty close, but we had to drain that thick shit b/c once it got cold, the pressure was up around where the oil isn't going to the cooler and that was on the highway. Put the 10W-30 back in and now once fully warmed up, the pressure will barely go above 32psi when fully warm even when cruising at 4k rpm. Yikes!
So we put a jack under the motor and pulled the engine hanger and then the oil pump cover. I mic'd one of the oil pump gears and found that it was only 21mm. However, our dual relief case should have a 26mm pump. Problem found? Also.....thanks to Robbie for the suggestion that day you were here!
It wasn't terribly easy to get at the upper pump cover nuts with the pulley tin in place and we didn't get the cover all the way off.....we got it off of 3 studs and spun it out of the way. I'm trying to visualize.....is there a way to get the pulley tin off without pulling the pulley and thus the whole motor? We want to pull the 21mm pump and get the right sized 26mm pump in there! Or are we looking at an engine pull? _________________ '69 Fuel Injected Squareback. "B" D-jet. 1600 with balanced rotating assembly and lightened flywheel. Full flow and external filter.
'70 Riviera. 1904cc w/ 40mm Dellortos, 019 distributor, Steve Tims “super stock” 37x32 heads, Web Cam 218, Vintage Speed SS143 Super Speed exhaust, 1 1/2” heater boxes |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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D/A/N wrote: |
....is there a way to get the pulley tin off without pulling the pulley and thus the whole motor? We want to pull the 21mm pump and get the right sized 26mm pump in there! Or are we looking at an engine pull? |
The short answer is no, but there's no need to drop the engine to remove the pulley, you were most of the way there during the muffler job.
Was that a NOS damper pipe as well?, or a modern one?, how did it fit? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2227 Location: 11222
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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busdaddy wrote: |
D/A/N wrote: |
....is there a way to get the pulley tin off without pulling the pulley and thus the whole motor? We want to pull the 21mm pump and get the right sized 26mm pump in there! Or are we looking at an engine pull? |
The short answer is no, but there's no need to drop the engine to remove the pulley, you were most of the way there during the muffler job. |
Oops. For some reason I was thinking that to break torque on the pulley bolt we'd have to lock the flywheel and same for torquing it back up. I suppose putting the trans in gear accomplishes the same thing since the bolt is not torqued that much anyway.
Not a good idea to drive it much until getting the oil pressure issue sorted out?
I wanted to get a Berg pump, but I can't be sure what kind of cam we have. Unless it's safe to assume a flat gear on account of the 21mm pump? Then again, aircooled.net sells a pump that can work with both flat and dished cam gears which will take the guess-work out. We'll just have to blueprint it ourselves.
busdaddy wrote: |
Was that a NOS damper pipe as well?, or a modern one?, how did it fit? |
Yes, it was NOS too. I forget the manufacturer but the fit was slightly loose in the muffler opening. For some reason I expected it to be more snug than it actually was. Why do you ask? How do the newer ones fit? _________________ '69 Fuel Injected Squareback. "B" D-jet. 1600 with balanced rotating assembly and lightened flywheel. Full flow and external filter.
'70 Riviera. 1904cc w/ 40mm Dellortos, 019 distributor, Steve Tims “super stock” 37x32 heads, Web Cam 218, Vintage Speed SS143 Super Speed exhaust, 1 1/2” heater boxes |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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I wouldn't lose any sleep over the pressure right now (unless you drive at 70 MPH for hours at a time), it's not that far off 10 PSI per 1K RPM, and maybe your gauge is wrong by ~6 lbs?, deal with it before the summer road trip season.
I was curious about the damper fit because new aftermarket ones are super loose and hard to clamp up without a severe application of copper silicone.
Another thing to consider is the amount the forward end of the damper overlaps the preheat tube in the muffler outlet, I had never considered it before until I saw this: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634080 (gets interesting on P2), I have never seen a similar spec for a bus, but hitting that sweet spot for maximum flow has to be worth shooting for. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12728 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:21 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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Good to hear y’all are making progress despite the cold/wet/misery.
I’ve got upwards of 70,000 miles on that exact 26mm Schadek pump from Aircooled.net, and I installed it with a worn-out cover plate that I lapped “flat.” It is indeed compatible with both types of camshafts, but you will need a vise to hold the gear and a hammer/punch to adjust. You’ll also need a dial caliper micrometer to check your new pump fit in your particular engine. The instructions that come with it are most excellent, which makes it a bargain from aircooled.net, even if you find it cheaper elsewhere.
I installed a new damper pipe on my same muffler last week (thanks, NYCynthia!) and I lost my fweem sound, but I also lost the sooty residue from the leak when I backed it into a log at 71whitwwesty’s house in 2016.... I ended up making a custom bracket to go from the tab on the muffler to the damper tab, allowing the damper to be inserted less than before. Notice how the new damper pipes aren’t perfect cylinders at the muffler junction? They’re a little comical, and the less insertion depth gave a better interface with the new tailpipe donut.
That makes four 21mm pumps I saw on my fall tour alone... hmmmm...
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2227 Location: 11222
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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busdaddy wrote: |
I wouldn't lose any sleep over the pressure right now (unless you drive at 70 MPH for hours at a time), it's not that far off 10 PSI per 1K RPM, and maybe your gauge is wrong by ~6 lbs?, deal with it before the summer road trip season. |
I'm fine with that. We have a 38 amp generator, some powder coated tin, and some oil leak clean up to do before hitting the road next summer. We an easily add the pump to the list. At some point, it might be instructive to test our gauge against a mechanical one that threads into the case.
busdaddy wrote: |
Another thing to consider is the amount the forward end of the damper overlaps the preheat tube in the muffler outlet, I had never considered it before until I saw this: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634080 (gets interesting on P2), I have never seen a similar spec for a bus, but hitting that sweet spot for maximum flow has to be worth shooting for. |
I remember using a tape measure to figure out insertion depth of the pea shooters on our '73 Beetle once like 8 years ago. I didn't even consider that for the damper on this muffler. There doesn't seem to be a spec for depth on a Type 3 either. So would more or less depth be better?
asiab3 wrote: |
I installed a new damper pipe on my same muffler last week (thanks, NYCynthia!) and I lost my fweem sound, but I also lost the sooty residue from the leak when I backed it into a log at 71whitwwesty’s house in 2016.... I ended up making a custom bracket to go from the tab on the muffler to the damper tab, allowing the damper to be inserted less than before. Notice how the new damper pipes aren’t perfect cylinders at the muffler junction? They’re a little comical, and the less insertion depth gave a better interface with the new tailpipe donut. |
Interesting about the fweem. I mostly noted how different the exhaust sounds now without the big ass Type 3 damper welded on there...it's so much quieter now and I can hear the valves ticking more clearly at idle. I'll keep an ear out for more changes.
asiab3 wrote: |
That makes four 21mm pumps I saw on my fall tour alone... hmmmm... |
So what's up with that? About our motor, Tram says it's "basically a NOS Vege factory exchange engine" which came out of a '69 Type 3. I can't imagine a 26mm pump would have been swapped out for a 21mm one but it wouldn't be the oddest thing in the world. The original motor on our '69 Type 3 had a boss for the oil valve by the flywheel cast into the case but no hole and thus no actual valve. Who knows what was up in '69/'70...transitional time and whatnot. _________________ '69 Fuel Injected Squareback. "B" D-jet. 1600 with balanced rotating assembly and lightened flywheel. Full flow and external filter.
'70 Riviera. 1904cc w/ 40mm Dellortos, 019 distributor, Steve Tims “super stock” 37x32 heads, Web Cam 218, Vintage Speed SS143 Super Speed exhaust, 1 1/2” heater boxes |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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D/A/N wrote: |
I remember using a tape measure to figure out insertion depth of the pea shooters on our '73 Beetle once like 8 years ago. I didn't even consider that for the damper on this muffler. There doesn't seem to be a spec for depth on a Type 3 either. So would more or less depth be better? |
I don't know, it's just something I ran across and wondered why there wasn't a spec for the bus, I guess it would take some experimenting with depths and a laser thermometer gun to see what got the manifold the hottest. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2227 Location: 11222
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Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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So.....3 months later!
With the work we did on the fresh air vents, we have zero air leaks in the front of the cab. If we run the BN4 and run the heat out the defrost vents, it gets positively hot and we have to crack a window. I never thought we'd get such good heat, but we absolutely did it! If we crank the booster fan that's plumbed below in the heater tubes, it gets even crazier. It rivals the heat in our Type 3 and that used to practically smoke us out on long drives b/c it was so hot.
In other news......yesterday we had occasion to drop off our "spare" transaxle b/c the one we're running now (and have been running since August) pops out of 1st and reverse. We're going to break the curse of the West Coast Transaxle and get a solid East Coast rebuild! The guy we dropped it off with asked me if we wanted to change our ring and pinion to 4.57 from stock for our bus and I didn't have an answer. He wasn't pushing it on us, but I was left wondering, do we want to change the ring and pinion? Is there a reason why we either should or shouldn't? Is this the dreaded change that would give us a giant flat spot when shifting up to 4th on a stock 1600 SP? _________________ '69 Fuel Injected Squareback. "B" D-jet. 1600 with balanced rotating assembly and lightened flywheel. Full flow and external filter.
'70 Riviera. 1904cc w/ 40mm Dellortos, 019 distributor, Steve Tims “super stock” 37x32 heads, Web Cam 218, Vintage Speed SS143 Super Speed exhaust, 1 1/2” heater boxes |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12728 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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Your last sentence: correct.
5.37 is matched to your 1600 engine, where the high end power output of one gear matches the low end power of the next gear when upshifted. A 4.x ratio forces you to wind the engine out higher in each gear to accelerate in the next gear. It was popular in modified bugs when the owners meant to buy a hot rod instead.
A cheap way to try out a new gear ratio is to run bigger tires on the rear. Do a 10+ mile trip on the highway and see if you like the change in “gearing.”
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22728 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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What- youse guys haven't signed up for Skills' conversion therapy yet?
Now that you have heat... are we adding A/C this summer?
But- I agree with Robbie. You know my mantra: "Don't mess with success". Think of mountains and the effect this might have.
Maybe once your trans is sorted and swapped you could consider doing this with the "jalapeno popper" you have in there now in case you decide to do the "winter engine/ summer engine" thing. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2227 Location: 11222
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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asiab3 wrote: |
Your last sentence: correct.
5.37 is matched to your 1600 engine, where the high end power output of one gear matches the low end power of the next gear when upshifted. A 4.x ratio forces you to wind the engine out higher in each gear to accelerate in the next gear. It was popular in modified bugs when the owners meant to buy a hot rod instead.
A cheap way to try out a new gear ratio is to run bigger tires on the rear. Do a 10+ mile trip on the highway and see if you like the change in “gearing.”
Robbie |
We're definitely NOT trying to have a miserable road trip this summer so we'll stay with the 5.37 ratio.
The other "upgrade" he offered was an aluminum intermediate housing.....the housing behind the nose cone wherein the pinion bearing rides. Either we can have the original bored out and shimmed so the bearing doesn't slide back and forth (we saw that it did) and so the keyways for the gear selectors don't have any slop or we can go with a new aluminum housing. The pic below is from the gallery but the choice is more or less between the left (aluminum) or the right (bored and shimmed) in the pic below. What's best?
_________________ '69 Fuel Injected Squareback. "B" D-jet. 1600 with balanced rotating assembly and lightened flywheel. Full flow and external filter.
'70 Riviera. 1904cc w/ 40mm Dellortos, 019 distributor, Steve Tims “super stock” 37x32 heads, Web Cam 218, Vintage Speed SS143 Super Speed exhaust, 1 1/2” heater boxes |
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neena Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010 Posts: 581 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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We figured out the answer to our transmission question ourselves and will be picking up the rebuild in the next week or so. In the meantime, we've been slowly getting ready for another summer on the road and have done some upgrades!
First were the door seals. There was always a leak from both doors into the cabin. When we met up with Robbie way back in October, he pointed out that there was an issue with our door seals which we had never noticed. They looked like this on the corners:
And now they look like this. They passed the first 3 rain tests with no leaks. And the doors close even more firmly. These are from Airhead Parts:
Then, we installed the engine bay light we bought from the very same Robbie mentioned above. We widened out the hole in the air cleaner stand just a tad and installed a simple on/off switch.
Yeah the wire has "-" all over it, but we made battery power out of "scrap" from the negative which was longer than needed. Switch in stand though
The light makes your engine bay go from this
to this
Upcoming we have:
--blueprint and then install the correct 26mm oil pump for our dual relief case
--transmission remove and replace (hopefully no more popping out of 1st and reverse)
--install 38 amp generator
--install correct air cleaner and venting hoses
--diagnose dual battery charging system to figure out why the last time we used the gas heater it drained the main battery so we don't have a problem when running fans while camping this summer
--lots and lots of other little stuff..... _________________ '69 Fuel Injected Squareback. "B" D-jet. 1600 with balanced rotating assembly and lightened flywheel. Full flow and external filter.
'70 Riviera. 1600 SP with 30 PICT 3 carburetor, 205M distributor, stock muffler
@chaseyessi on Instagram |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16883 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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you may want to rethink that un-fused exposed bare terminal switch arrangement unless you are really hoping the bus burns to the ground _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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neena Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010 Posts: 581 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Jack_O_Trades Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2014 Posts: 188 Location: Bay Area CA
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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neena wrote: |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
you may want to rethink that un-fused exposed bare terminal switch arrangement unless you are really hoping the bus burns to the ground |
That was just the test fit! We've got heat shrink covering the terminals now but no fuse. What amperage fuse is the next question! |
The fuse should be equal to or less than whatever the wire and/or that switch is rated for, which ever is less. |
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neena Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010 Posts: 581 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5998 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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I would suspect an LED strip would be hard-pressed to pull more than 5A at 12V.
You could put a meter in series between it and the battery to see what it draws. If you are using a modern blade-type fuse holder, I'd think a 10A fuse would be more than enough, but probably 5A would be super too.
If the paperwork that came with that LED strip lists its wattage, then you can do some math and find the appropriate fuse, for example, 5w (number pulled out of my ass) divided by 12v = 0.42A in which case a 1A fuse would be more than enough. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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