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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2224 Location: 11222
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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D/A/N wrote: |
what's left to look at?. |
Maybe the linkage that runs up inside the frame? Without being there it's hard to say what's bugging it, do all 3 panes close equally?, or does one close tight and two flop? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2224 Location: 11222
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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busdaddy wrote: |
D/A/N wrote: |
what's left to look at?. |
Maybe the linkage that runs up inside the frame? Without being there it's hard to say what's bugging it, do all 3 panes close equally?, or does one close tight and two flop? |
They don't close equally and they all flop. The middle flops most, then the bottom, then the top. But here's the new thing.....after testing the window out a bunch in the last few days, the regulator has developed a lot of slop. So much that it now takes about 2 rotations out from closed for the panes to start opening. Maybe the regulator was already crappy and that's why it wouldn't close all the way? I guess I'm saying that I'll try yet another regulator and see if that makes a difference before going further. The fact that opening and closing the panes a few times over a few days caused all this slop doesn't bode well.
FWIW, I bought both the left and right regulator on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FPKYIK8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I pulled this one (left) off and compared it to the right one. Night and day difference in how they turn. The left one is already trashed. At least I can still return it _________________ '69 Fuel Injected Squareback. "B" D-jet. 1600 with balanced rotating assembly and lightened flywheel. Full flow and external filter.
'70 Riviera. 1904cc w/ 40mm Dellortos, 019 distributor, Steve Tims “super stock” 37x32 heads, Web Cam 218, Vintage Speed SS143 Super Speed exhaust, 1 1/2” heater boxes |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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D/A/N wrote: |
busdaddy wrote: |
D/A/N wrote: |
what's left to look at?. |
Maybe the linkage that runs up inside the frame? Without being there it's hard to say what's bugging it, do all 3 panes close equally?, or does one close tight and two flop? |
They don't close equally and they all flop. The middle flops most, then the bottom, then the top. But here's the new thing.....after testing the window out a bunch in the last few days, the regulator has developed a lot of slop. So much that it now takes about 2 rotations out from closed for the panes to start opening. Maybe the regulator was already crappy and that's why it wouldn't close all the way? I guess I'm saying that I'll try yet another regulator and see if that makes a difference before going further. The fact that opening and closing the panes a few times over a few days caused all this slop doesn't bode well.
FWIW, I bought both the left and right regulator on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FPKYIK8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I pulled this one (left) off and compared it to the right one. Night and day difference in how they turn. The left one is already trashed. At least I can still return it |
Those windows were far from the best quality even when new (one of the few American made parts on a Westfalia to meet some DOT regulation), if every rivet is sloppy it all adds up, and a crappy repro regulator likely doesn't help. They all require a turn or two to overcome the slop, even on near new OG buses, if your PO drove around with the windows 1/2 open all the time the wear will be many times worse.
But usually there's enough surplus travel in the mechanism to wind them down to close fully, I wonder if something is bent too? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2224 Location: 11222
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Those windows were far from the best quality even when new (one of the few American made parts on a Westfalia to meet some DOT regulation), if every rivet is sloppy it all adds up, and a crappy repro regulator likely doesn't help. They all require a turn or two to overcome the slop, even on near new OG buses, if your PO drove around with the windows 1/2 open all the time the wear will be many times worse.
But usually there's enough surplus travel in the mechanism to wind them down to close fully, I wonder if something is bent too? |
I didn't realize the windows were American made. I thought it was odd that the glass was PPG which I always thought of as an American brand but you've explained it. Now as to why it'd be required that jalousie windows had to be American made but all other glass didn't have to be......
Could be something is bent. They don't close any better with the new regulator than they did with the old whereas everything on the other window snugs down pretty well even with the original regulator.
I bought the shitty one from Amazon on a gamble. Even if Hehr is still available (which it kind of seems to be), I figured that they'd be as OEM as Meyle of Germany-China, SKG and FAG of Germany-India and countless other parts. The Amazon one looks exactly like what Bus Depot is selling for $10 more and the place which sells Hehr stuff has a website straight out of 1997 so I passed. Perhaps I shouldn't have! _________________ '69 Fuel Injected Squareback. "B" D-jet. 1600 with balanced rotating assembly and lightened flywheel. Full flow and external filter.
'70 Riviera. 1904cc w/ 40mm Dellortos, 019 distributor, Steve Tims “super stock” 37x32 heads, Web Cam 218, Vintage Speed SS143 Super Speed exhaust, 1 1/2” heater boxes |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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Disconnect the window operator and see if the window will operate.
This will tell you if it the crank or the window mechanism. |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22697 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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D/A/N wrote: |
busdaddy wrote: |
Those windows were far from the best quality even when new (one of the few American made parts on a Westfalia to meet some DOT regulation), if every rivet is sloppy it all adds up, and a crappy repro regulator likely doesn't help. They all require a turn or two to overcome the slop, even on near new OG buses, if your PO drove around with the windows 1/2 open all the time the wear will be many times worse.
But usually there's enough surplus travel in the mechanism to wind them down to close fully, I wonder if something is bent too? |
I didn't realize the windows were American made. I thought it was odd that the glass was PPG which I always thought of as an American brand but you've explained it. Now as to why it'd be required that jalousie windows had to be American made but all other glass didn't have to be......
Could be something is bent. They don't close any better with the new regulator than they did with the old whereas everything on the other window snugs down pretty well even with the original regulator.
I bought the shitty one from Amazon on a gamble. Even if Hehr is still available (which it kind of seems to be), I figured that they'd be as OEM as Meyle of Germany-China, SKG and FAG of Germany-India and countless other parts. The Amazon one looks exactly like what Bus Depot is selling for $10 more and the place which sells Hehr stuff has a website straight out of 1997 so I passed. Perhaps I shouldn't have! |
If you just want another complete window email me. The ones I have both close all the way. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22697 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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D/A/N wrote: |
Tram wrote: |
If you haven't yet gotten this to improve try loosening the nuts at both ends of the U junction slightly and see if that improves things.
The way these doors "glide" themselves open has to do with the momentum of how easily the "U" swings to the full open stop... it's THAT easy swinging motion with the sudden stop that then makes it glide down the track easily on its own.
"It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing". Seriously.
If the loosened nuts help but they are now so loose they may work themselves off, replace them with nylocs.
If this doesn't help there's a possibility that the plating is interfering with the swing action. Remove the U with the door open at the rear and supported and grease the thing up. If that doesn't help file the plating down in the area that goes up into the other 2 parts of the hinge.
Sometimes shitty painted parts ARE better... |
There's only a nut on one end of the U. The other side is the more complicated one with the pin and clips and whatnot else. I lubed the hell out of that but never thought to loosen the nut. I'll add that to the list for summer road trip prep.
In other news, we had a few days of well-deserved camping this weekend. The full length Bus Depot awning is a win even if the poles are clunky. The front door screens are pretty good but need a bit of help to make a good seal between the magnets. We may sew in a few more in between the ones provided. Still, a pleasant scene:
Our bigger summer road trip prep item is removing our leaky sliding windows and replacing them with jalousies. We've got one window all ready......cleaned up, new seals, all moving parts lubricated, and even a new regulator mechanism. Problem is, the individual panes still won't close tightly. When reading about that issue on the forum, the old threads pointed to a new regulator mechanism but it didn't work for us. Even with an old mechanism and before rebuild, the window on the other side closes more tightly. It seems like one of ours will rattle but would be fine with another 1/4 turn of the regulator which it just doesn't have. Any ideas for a fix before we install? We can take a video if needed. |
Anybody hurt in that wreck?? _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2224 Location: 11222
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 5:31 am Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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Tram wrote: |
If you just want another complete window email me. The ones I have both close all the way. |
Tempting, but I've got enough hours in disassembly, cleaning, dry and wet sanding, stripping, polishing, reassembling, replacing the crank mechanism, testing, and trouble shooting that I feel too far in to cut the knot. I'll try out tcash's suggestion tonight and will keep you posted.
Early in the process, I came across a post from busdaddy that said something to the effect of rebuilding the jalousies is so tedious that he'd just as soon find a pair that work outright. I see what he means.
If only the brand new ones in the classifieds weren't $1200! _________________ '69 Fuel Injected Squareback. "B" D-jet. 1600 with balanced rotating assembly and lightened flywheel. Full flow and external filter.
'70 Riviera. 1904cc w/ 40mm Dellortos, 019 distributor, Steve Tims “super stock” 37x32 heads, Web Cam 218, Vintage Speed SS143 Super Speed exhaust, 1 1/2” heater boxes |
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andrewtf Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2011 Posts: 602 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:18 am Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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This may be a long shot - but it happened to me.
The long cross bar that the operator twists to open the window can be put in wrong.. in a couple of ways. You might try to flip it over and see if that helps the closing situation. You may even have the wrong cross bar.
I had two jalousie windows that I was restoring. One had the crank on the left and one had it on the right. I swapped the cross bars to put the better cross bar on the better overall window. This was a mistake. The window would not close all the way - leaving the individual windows maybe 80% closed. Turning it over did not help. I had to swap back the original cross bar to make it work correctly.
Probably not your situation, but maybe worth some thought. _________________ '75 Riviera - 'BIG EMMA' (Pan American highway trip paused for a make over)
'77 Riviera - Murphy' (being reborn.... slowly)
'63 Austin Healey |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2224 Location: 11222
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:28 am Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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A little info
Jalousie (louvered) Windows |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22697 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:13 am Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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D/A/N wrote: |
Tram wrote: |
If you just want another complete window email me. The ones I have both close all the way. |
Tempting, but I've got enough hours in disassembly, cleaning, dry and wet sanding, stripping, polishing, reassembling, replacing the crank mechanism, testing, and trouble shooting that I feel too far in to cut the knot. I'll try out tcash's suggestion tonight and will keep you posted.
Early in the process, I came across a post from busdaddy that said something to the effect of rebuilding the jalousies is so tedious that he'd just as soon find a pair that work outright. I see what he means.
If only the brand new ones in the classifieds weren't $1200! |
Yeah, these stupid windows are deceptively tedious. Was just suggesting this because summer vacation is coming like a freight train. You could transfer your resealed glass pieces after just polishing up the main frame/ mechanism.
Not saying you want to give up on the one you have- you can still work on figuring it out for your own knowledge... but why postpone summer... again? _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2224 Location: 11222
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:10 am Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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Tram wrote: |
Yeah, these stupid windows are deceptively tedious. Was just suggesting this because summer vacation is coming like a freight train. You could transfer your resealed glass pieces after just polishing up the main frame/ mechanism. |
True, they are deceptively tedious. The second window has been disassembled and half cleaned up for almost a month now and I can't bring myself to keep scrubbing, sanding, and polishing. Have to though.
Tram wrote: |
Not saying you want to give up on the one you have- you can still work on figuring it out for your own knowledge... but why postpone summer... again? |
How about this.......We tried reversing the rod but it seems to only want to go one way on account of the slots in the arms at each end. Turned around, we could only get one side to connect correctly. The new regulator comes tomorrow. If that doesn't turn out to be the magic bullet, we'll take you up on your offer. _________________ '69 Fuel Injected Squareback. "B" D-jet. 1600 with balanced rotating assembly and lightened flywheel. Full flow and external filter.
'70 Riviera. 1904cc w/ 40mm Dellortos, 019 distributor, Steve Tims “super stock” 37x32 heads, Web Cam 218, Vintage Speed SS143 Super Speed exhaust, 1 1/2” heater boxes |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2224 Location: 11222
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22697 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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D/A/N wrote: |
Ok......new regulator from Amazon and now the top pane closes tightly but the other two are loose. So a new regulator changed something, but not everything. Here's a not-so-great video that shows the tightness of the panes from bottom to top. The bottom and middle are pretty floppy, but the top is tight. WTF????
Link
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Well, if the top one closes tight now but not the lower ones, I'd think it would have to be slop in the linkage rivets or maybe there is some slight adjustment/ slop where the lower two panes fasten to the holders on the sides... e.g., possibly loosen the four retainer screws and tip the pane further closed? _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2224 Location: 11222
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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:35 am Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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Tram wrote: |
Well, if the top one closes tight now but not the lower ones, I'd think it would have to be slop in the linkage rivets or maybe there is some slight adjustment/ slop where the lower two panes fasten to the holders on the sides... e.g., possibly loosen the four retainer screws and tip the pane further closed? |
Repositioning the panes on the holders didn't do anything. I'm not even sure it's actually possible to do so as there's really only a millimeter or two of movement but we tried.
All that's left is the rivets. If I push up on the linkage arm, I can get the windows to close snugly, so there's probably too much slop in the rivets which contributes to sagging in the linkage parts. It seems like one more turn on the operator mechanism would also work but there just isn't one. _________________ '69 Fuel Injected Squareback. "B" D-jet. 1600 with balanced rotating assembly and lightened flywheel. Full flow and external filter.
'70 Riviera. 1904cc w/ 40mm Dellortos, 019 distributor, Steve Tims “super stock” 37x32 heads, Web Cam 218, Vintage Speed SS143 Super Speed exhaust, 1 1/2” heater boxes |
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neena Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010 Posts: 581 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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Because these stupid jalousies are the most annoying thing in the world, we decided to address some other issues/do some other work for a while.
1) We'd been having a popping out the exhaust when letting off the throttle and sometimes when shifting gears at high rpms. Went through the valves, dwell, timing, idle speed/mixture but no fix. Then we had a look at the throttle positioner (2 piece version). It turns out that it wasn't holding the throttle open at all when getting off the pedal. With a little bit of adjusting clockwise, no more popping and it hangs open about 4 seconds. Bentley says 3.5 seconds +/- 1 second. The only bad thing we found is that the locking screw is frozen. Couldn't move it to adjust but didn't need to. Couldn't lock it down but need to.
2) We're about to head off on a 7 week road trip. We also want to bring our bicycles and needed to repaint our rear bumper. We thought today might be a good day to install the hitch. It's one of these
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=458811
Even though the ad says that the hitch replaces the stock bumper brackets, we didn't register what that means. It turns out the with our fat ass Type 3 tail pipe and the combustion air intake for our BN4 that there's no way this thing will install on one side. Even if we moved the intake pipe, the part of the hitch the bumper is supposed to mount to wouldn't clear the tail pipe. Anyone want to buy a hitch???? Maybe it's better that the bumper wouldn't be mounted to the hitch anyway?
At least we got the bumper painted
3) After sleeping up top a few times, I found that the plain wood was a little rough. We have a thick sleep pad for up there, but getting on and off onto the wood wasn't the most fun. Then I remembered the batting I used in making the cushions:
And I had some leftover fabric from the bed and jump seat so I stapled that on. so much more comfortable and it flips over just fine even without a seam
_________________ '69 Fuel Injected Squareback. "B" D-jet. 1600 with balanced rotating assembly and lightened flywheel. Full flow and external filter.
'70 Riviera. 1600 SP with 30 PICT 3 carburetor, 205M distributor, stock muffler
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22697 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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Because these stupid jalousies are the most annoying thing in the world
Bwwwwaaaaaahahaha. If only! Have you already forgotten... well, everything else?
Couldn't lock it down but need to.
Drop of super glue work?
Your solution to the upper deck is absolutely, positively just perfect.
As to a bike rack... what about a rear hatch mounted one? Fiammas work well and will hold 2 bikes- you can still access the engine without removing the whole thing as well:
http://www.busdepot.com/ka0026
Spendy, but hey. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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neena Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010 Posts: 581 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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