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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16859
Location: sticksville, ct.
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 Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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| Tram wrote: |
You're seeing more rust in the previously unrusted area by the sliding door because in Brooklyn the roads are quite crowned- the curb sides lower than the middle. As the Bus sits in the rain, the water comes in the vent window, flows along the bed board on the floor, and flows into the ridges by the door under the laminate. There it sits, until it rots out it's own escape route. It can't wick up and evaporate like it can when it leaks on carpet.
I'm not posting this to absolve myself of responsibility. I'm not posting it to blame you or make you feel badly. I'm just posting the facts of the matter as I see them. It's a real tragedy to see what's happening here after all the work ALL of us have put into this Bus.
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 unreal...
so guys...everyone that wanted to flame D/A/N and neena for their rust issues, how about this:
fucking bondo worms jammed into a fucking pin-holed, should have been replaced rocker. I guess TRAM doesn't know how to weld, just apply bullshit with a 4" trowel...
more on that later ^^^^^^
HI 
what you are looking at is the lower rocker from the floor view. the 2 parallel panels are the inner and mid rocker. see all of those bondo worms?
lemme guess TRAM....you see, the roads in Brooklyn are quite crowned. what happens here is body filler runs up into all of these pin-holes by fucking hacks that have no business taking money for something they have no clue how to solve, then blame them for rust issues... and Brooklyn is known for the chinsese bondo worm...
so, let me start from where i come in. i know, 1/2 you guys want to punch me in the mouth...don't really give a fuck honestly. the other 1/2 just want to watch the trainwreck.
i saw d/a/n and neena taking some heat for this rust. everyone kind of ganged up on them in typical samba fasion. odd...it pissed me off. i reached out to them and the rest as they say is history.
initially i was asked to take care of the forward wheel tub rot and the holes in the cargo floor. what transpired from they was an epic shit show of the worse case of peeling back the "onion rings" i have ever been a part of. sad thing is, we are not even close to done....
where we started:
that black stuff is the tar left over from the water and ice shield shit the samba socialist put all over the floors
so, clearly if you scroll back a page, you can see that the floor didn't look too bad, but it really was. it was just hidden under layers of shit.
before anyone says anything....i want to clear something up. although d/a/n and neena didn't pay for "real" rust work, and by that i mean welding...they would have for sure...because who in their right mind would do rust work AFTER paint, after a "restoration"? no one...that's who.
the floor was so bad, so full of random "oops, missed it boss" holes, it was disgusting
" I drilled it 7 times and STILL missed"
aw, shit...missed AGAIN
and AGAIN
where do you begin? I mean, there is too much shit and not enough toilet paper....
so seeing that I was going to lay across the floor, only made sense to start at the cargo door side
got everything cleaned up, primed...
let's take care of this bullshit next...
i'll save you the boring details of welding up every hole...trust me, they ALL got fixed. yes, new holes will need to be drilled for water etc but at least they will be in the right spot.... and not like Hellen Keller got ahold of a drill.
I would like to add....d/a/n and neena came over and put in a TON of sweat equity cleaning the floor up. it got to a point I felt so bad, I told them no need paying me skilled labor for an unskilled job. I mean, anyone with a pulse could have cleaned up the floor...it's not like you were going to hurt it.
I interrogated d/a/n and neena to find out their true intentions with the bus. I must have asked them 10 ways to Sunday...then again, backwards what they wanted to do with the bus.
they didn't want show winning...they wanted a solid driver quality camper. something they were proud of, yet would whip off the road to camp in. so, I had to dial it back in my head a bit...they don't want my blue bus...just a good solid sound driver....got it.
the decision was made to clean the floor and just use masterseries. the stuff is no joke, and shouldn't give them any trouble moving forward. so once I got 1/2 the floor dialed in, we put down 1 coat of masterseries to start.
they weren't concerned with dings/dents...they just wanted a floor with no rot and not full of shit. can't blame them....
soooo....that leaves the drivers side. initially I was going to patch the holes, and fix the rear tub. but...found all of this
it was far too much. labor wise, it was just better to rip that 1/2 out and start new...
the rear corner was so bad, it just made sense
to make matters worse, there was a dent at floor level that was just "paved over" and there was ZERO effort to tap it out..
which, resulted in this
and led to this
all for a dent that could have been roughed out....in 14 mins...
so, out you come....
it was during the removal of the floor I found the rotten rocker. needless to say, I was pretty bummed.
we'll regroup after on the rockers....
anyway, I got the floor laid out and installed
zap zap zap
burn baby burn
grind grind wizz wizzz
so....after ALL that, I can dial in one of their original complaints. you see, the crowned roads in Brooklyn do this...so I guess don't drive in Brooklyn
and that is where I will leave off for tonight. I have to upload more pix.
bottom line...i'm still not done. now it needs rockers and the window channel is so chooched up that I will have to get into that next. honestly, this bus has FANTASTIC bones. I mean, the front floor is near mint...2 tiny holes on the passengers side. it's just too bad that it got butchered by clowns that had no idea what they were doing other than talking about shit they couldn't deliver...
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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richparker
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 6980
Location: Durango, CO
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tristessa
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3992
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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I've seen -- in person, with my own eyes -- several Riviera campers of roughly that vintage that were stripped down to the cargo floor. Two of them that I'm sure of had more than one of those "whoops, missed, try again" holes like you're seeing, and I think one of the others did too but it's been so long I don't remember for sure. These were "virgin" campers, hadn't been stripped to the bare metal inside since they were built. If D/A/N and Neena's was done after a 3-day holiday weekend when half the crew was hung over... 
The Rivi's were definitely made more to the "1960's/70's camper/trailer/motorhome" build quality level than to the "German Westfalia" build quality level. Sheet metal screws through the wood and into the metal floor underneath for attaching the bed/seat hinges, stuff like that. There's a ton of them around the Portland area where I live, but that's more a function of them being built here than anything else.
Last edited by tristessa on Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Brian
Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 8340
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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| richparker wrote: |
| That’s a lot of wires for a bay. |
The good ol "sale on red wire"
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'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16859
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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| tristessa wrote: |
I've seen -- in person, with my own eyes -- several Riviera campers of roughly that vintage that were stripped down to the cargo floor. Two of them that I'm sure of had more than one of those "whoops, missed, try again" holes like you're seeing, and I think one of the others did too but it's been so long I don't remember for sure. These were "virgin" campers, hadn't been stripped to the bare metal inside since they were built. If D/A/N and Neena's was done after a 3-day holiday weekend when half the crew was hung over...
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welp….
according to these photos...the 3 day weekend was done at the socialists house
the only thing I can't confirm is the hole situation by the door as there is a box there.
Brian...no shit. the red wires are comical and sad all at once. actually, the whole bus is that way.
the only level of detail given to the bus was the fast talk, and how many hours got billed. beyond that, it's all a bad joke. if I ever cut one of my personal cars free and it was put together like this, i'd be embarrassed. if I charged someone for this, i'd be suicidal.
we'll kick the stink off of it and give it what it deserves. like I said, this is round one. we are just trying to get it to a point where we can get it so they can use it for camping again. not too sure if they will ever talk to me after this though
"we do thing right, because we do them twice" should be the restorers motto
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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71whitewesty
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2010
Posts: 1543
Location: oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:50 am Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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Glad to see this train wreck has a new conductor and this conductor has metal work skillz...
What are you going to do with the foam insulation? Love that stuff.. 
_________________
71 Westy 1600 DP, all stock Bus 1
1970's Snow Trac 1600 SP (sold 12/2016)
1968 Tucker sno cat, sold 2021
1969 Tucker Sno cat 542
2017 VW Alltrac
71 tin top stock 1600 DP (project but runs)
Twin 71 White Westy, Bus 2, that I pulled from a 15 year slumber in a dry eastern WA field in 2015.
1966 Sundial Camper "Boomer" |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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Ewwwwwwwww
How do you like the WW cargo floors? I haven’t used them for baywindows yet
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| aeromech wrote: |
| in my opinion you don't know shit |
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orwell84
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 2536
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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That’s really nice work. I guess I don’t know what goes into show cars because I don’t see anything that’s “less than”. I don’t understand the reason that buses get bodged like that. Sculpting all that bondo takes loads of time as does covering stuff up. I would rather weld and move a little metal than sculpt all that filler. I don’t have enough skill to do filler free metal finishing but I try to keep it to a minimum.
I’m glad to see that bus getting some love. |
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curtp07
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 874
Location: Mass
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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I’m still curious about what was paid for the bus. Like how much the seller had in his hand. Not a “what my time was worth”. Interesting thread. Nice work Skills! Will be nice when it’s finished.
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16859
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: |
Ewwwwwwwww
How do you like the WW cargo floors? I haven’t used them for baywindows yet |
not bad. profile is dam close. flanges fore and aft could use 1/8- 3/16 more material
| orwell84 wrote: |
That’s really nice work. I guess I don’t know what goes into show cars because I don’t see anything that’s “less than”. I don’t understand the reason that buses get bodged like that. Sculpting all that bondo takes loads of time as does covering stuff up. I would rather weld and move a little metal than sculpt all that filler. I don’t have enough skill to do filler free metal finishing but I try to keep it to a minimum.
I’m glad to see that bus getting some love. |
thank you. I could have gone "nicer" but the reality is they don't want Pebble Beach/ concours d'elegance. they were cool with bumps and blem's but straight up rot? no... I mean who would paint something if it was a rusty turd? that is NOT what they wanted, but what they got.
I guess people bodge these because they hope it will be down the road by the time the issues bleed thru. what's worse is a member here did this shit...or paid someone to do it for him. either way, he signed off on it. sad. if he had 1/2 a shred of decency he'd cut a check for 2-3k to take the sting out of this...I mean we still have a lot of rot to fix. there is nothing left to the jalousie window sill...we haven't even gotten here yet....and the REAL kick in the dick is if you look closely, THEY CUT THE HEADLINER AROUND THE ROT....so they knew it was there....
| D/A/N wrote: |
I think we’re gonna be fucked because none of the rust Tram claimed “cleaned up nicely” was ever properly dealt with. Did I ever show you what’s under the jalousie seals? I’m afraid to think of what is under all the rest of the seals....
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| curtp07 wrote: |
| I’m still curious about what was paid for the bus. Like how much the seller had in his hand. Not a “what my time was worth”. Interesting thread. Nice work Skills! Will be nice when it’s finished. |
this may help
| D/A/N wrote: |
$20k was a rough figure for work done. If you add in all the parts we bought, the purchase price of the bus, a month of our own labor and a bunch of stuff I’m forgetting, then we’re around $28-$30k.
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_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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curtp07
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 874
Location: Mass
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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Well you WILL have a nice bus when it’s done. The good times you will have will help.
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71whitewesty
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2010
Posts: 1543
Location: oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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| curtp07 wrote: |
| Well you WILL have a nice bus when it’s done. The good times you will have will help. |
I agree, Skillz won't let that roll out of there until it's a solid driver. Looking forward to watching the progress. Looking great so far. 
_________________
71 Westy 1600 DP, all stock Bus 1
1970's Snow Trac 1600 SP (sold 12/2016)
1968 Tucker sno cat, sold 2021
1969 Tucker Sno cat 542
2017 VW Alltrac
71 tin top stock 1600 DP (project but runs)
Twin 71 White Westy, Bus 2, that I pulled from a 15 year slumber in a dry eastern WA field in 2015.
1966 Sundial Camper "Boomer" |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16859
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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moving along...
I had to cut the X brace to fit the floor, which was no big deal seeing that was rotted too
oh, and full of foam
lots of spot welds in that little fucker
so this has a L shaped flange going towards the rocker. unless I cut he side of the bus off there was no way I was getting my gun in there. so, I tacked across the floor to hold it then stitch welded beads to connect it all. it's not "right" by restoration terms but will be plenty strong.
after all of that, the first section got sanded as required by masterseries to topcoat with itself. I think you have a 7 day window before they want you to sand the surface. goal here was 2 coats on the entire floor
and before anyone strokes out, everything got masterseries before seam sealer. I went overkill on the sealer, but why not
then it was on to prep the floor to the topcoat of MS
I prepped the underside and we went with undercoating...remember it's a driver...
just have to tie up some lose ends and then they can put the interior back in so they can use it for the season.....then we will pick it up again in the fall/winter to get the window, rocker etc dialed in
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Globespotter
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2012
Posts: 1770
Location: Newmarket, ON
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16859
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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| Globespotter wrote: |
Here goes...
Forgive my stupidity or ignorance please but... |
forgiven
| Globespotter wrote: |
Would it not be easier to pull the whole floor and replace it with a new one - or can one not get the whole floor as a part??? |
yes/no/maybe
the cargo floors on all buses are just 1/2 sheets joined in the center. IF we were doing a restoration quality repair I would have done that. D/A/N and neena really and truly wanted a daily driver quality bus they could use.
that bus had so many random holes, rot and issues on the drivers side it would have been more labor intensive to sit there and play patch the holes than rip off the band-aid and replace the 1/2.
the passenger side wasn't as bad in terms of bullshit so it made sense to fix the 2 main issues there. seeing they weren't worried about dents/dings and other birthmarks it was quicker to do that.
the drivers side would have required so many patches it was foolish to try and save it.
if you look at this pic:
you can see what it took to lay out all the holes for plug welding. what you don't see is the removal of the paint so I could weld.
for every hole you see was a corresponding spot weld that had to be drilled to remove the old floor.
with all the damage on the drivers side floor if I were to make the several patch panels needed that would have eaten so much time in just panel fitment, but I would have laid about 30 linear feet of weld (so a 12x12 patch has 4 feet of weld that needs to be laid and ground down)
it was the case of cost benefit analysis and "the lesser of 2 evils" how to proceed with the repairs. so either do 5 feet of welding like on the passenger side, or drill out 400 spot welds and drop a new panel in that would require 400 drill holes, 400 plug welds and 400 places to grind the welds down
it made the most economic sense to do what we did. I have 2 fan clubs. those who want my head on a flaming stake, and those who actually like me. no matter which camp you fall into know this... I will ALWAYS give folks options on how to proceed with a project and will work with them to give them the best job they can afford AS LONG AS the repairs are legit.
I do my best to spent your money like it was mine. I always did, and always will UNLESS it's a hack or a safety issue. if you look in the photos I didn't back grind the plug welds along the drivers side wall. I gave them the option to try and save a few bux...the reality is it would have probably been another hour or so of work. that hour of labor is better spent on something that "matters" and seeing that it was purely aesthetic and not structural we let it fly.
I hope that makes sense?
as an aside, they really needed/wanted a coach to help them thru this. they took bad advice from the wrong people along the way....because they simply didn't know better. was this a comedy of errors or a greedy asshole that wanted to make bank and didn't give a shit about the outcome?
seeing that this was done by a member here who some regard as a "guru" i'm going with the latter. no self respecting mechanic, enthusiast or restoration expert would let this leave the shop like this. I would expect to get raked over the coals if I did this to someone.
at this point it is what it is....and I will continue this fall with the rest of the repairs. D/A/N and neena have been great to work with, and I enjoy keeping them in the loop with updates and progress. in the end they are finally getting what they paid for, not just a bunch of stories and a bunch of cover up bullshit
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Globespotter
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2012
Posts: 1770
Location: Newmarket, ON
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16859
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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| Globespotter wrote: |
Makes sense to do it the way you did. |
thanks. after some long conversations and knowing what D/A/N and neena were really after it made sense to save what we could, and replace what we couldn't.
again, they just want a solid bus...who doesn't? they can live with some character flaws and for them, it makes sense. they drive the wheels off this thing so going too overboard isn't worth it.
I look back on my deluxe build and think what the hell did I do it to that level? i'm not afraid to drive it but i'm afraid to leave it unattended for long periods. what fun is that? none. in fact, I tell folks NOT to go to that level. kind of zaps the fun out of it.
we'll pick up on the rocker repair, window channel etc come fall/winter. I was glad to get it to a point they could bail out when they wanted to and camp for whatever season we have left.
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Cap10323
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016
Posts: 604
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: '70 Riviera: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures |
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I just read through this whole thread. Wow, what a ride.
Some truly impressive hackjobs were done to this bus. I was shaking my head in disbelief until the bondo thickness picture, at which point I had to burst out laughing. Holy. Shit.
Skills, you're a master fabricator, and I admire you for your abnormally low tolerance for bullshit. It's an unsung quality these days.
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-Ian
'77 Westfalia - 2.0 F.I |
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