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jeffrey8164 
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3814
Location: Georgia
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 Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
The problem you are going to have is that you will not have any frame of reference on what the CHT is supposed to be. You can take readings from 10 different places on the head and get 10 completely different temps. The airplane industry that uses VW aircooled motors came up with their own place. I've personally tested MANY cylinder head castings to check for CHT and agree with their assessment. Under the spark plug is also not a consistent temp due to different castings. The one temp that is consistent is the temp on the exhaust flange, right before the exhaust. When I test run an engine, I use a laser heat gun to check the temp on each cylinder. |
Hi Roy,
I understand your point. To go further down the rabbit hole, we will never have any frame of reference since there is no longer a reference. Maybe some day we could 3D print some sort of titanium carbon fiber head capable of operating to 1300 degrees. You've seen the debates. I've seen the debates and the only thing I can get out of any of them is that 300-315 degrees is not too hot. Of course all different gauges and senders as well.
I think if I pay enough attention to the tune of the engine, I shouldn't really have to worry about the CHT too much anyway--- Until I dog it up a twisty mountain for an hour and a half! Then it would be nice to see how far from baseline I am.
I found a spot that should be goodish. In this part of the casting there is no fin separation from the chamber and it's close to the plug for those seeking a like comparison.
I also thought about a couple other alternatives closer to the exhaust:
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Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3814
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
| I see that you're using the typeIII lower cooling tins, there has been lots of talk of them being too restrictive & causing an engine using the typeI cooling shrouds to run hotter. Perhaps Roy could weigh in on this too, if he has any experience with them. |
I've had them on every engine I've ever built since 1988.
Literally. The same ones. Every engine.
Do they run cooler or hotter?
I can't say as I've never had any gauges.
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Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 8:34 am Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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| jeffrey8164 wrote: |
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| I see that you're using the typeIII lower cooling tins, there has been lots of talk of them being too restrictive & causing an engine using the typeI cooling shrouds to run hotter. Perhaps Roy could weigh in on this too, if he has any experience with them. |
I've had them on every engine I've ever built since 1988.
Literally. The same ones. Every engine.
Do they run cooler or hotter?
I can't say as I've never had any gauges. |
Hmmmm, ... so you've used the same set of pieces on multiple different engine builds since 1988, eh?
Could it then be considered a possibility that the use of those pieces is perhaps the reason why you've had to perform multiple engine builds during that period of time? 
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3814
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:32 am Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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| KGCoupe wrote: |
| jeffrey8164 wrote: |
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| I see that you're using the typeIII lower cooling tins, there has been lots of talk of them being too restrictive & causing an engine using the typeI cooling shrouds to run hotter. Perhaps Roy could weigh in on this too, if he has any experience with them. |
I've had them on every engine I've ever built since 1988.
Literally. The same ones. Every engine.
Do they run cooler or hotter?
I can't say as I've never had any gauges. |
Hmmmm, ... so you've used the same set of pieces on multiple different engine builds since 1988, eh?
Could it then be considered a possibility that the use of those pieces is perhaps the reason why you've had to perform multiple engine builds during that period of time?
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Not really. Chasing performance.
1600 to 1679 C-25 cam. Then to 1835 C-35 cam and a Weber 32/36 DFAV. Then to a 1915 CB 044 heads Erson VW-200 cam, and Dells. Now on to a 2276, Web 86 cam, 1.4 rockers, Dells same 42x37.5 044s.
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Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3814
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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Well after reading the instructions for the epoxy, I chose this spot. I trimmed the “sandwich” so it would fit closer to the spark plug.
The epoxy has to be baked to cure. 3 hours at 350 so I had to remove the head to put it in the oven. Now my wife hates me and she has one more thing to remind me about over and over and over....
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3814
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 10:59 am Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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This stuff is no joke. It sounds like metal when I tap it.
After baking I decided to put a skim coat on top just for GP.
Instead of the oven I used a heat gun this time.
I'm surprised it ran 4 hours continuously.
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3814
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:02 am Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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Then while torqueing down the head...
Disaster!
Brand new stud couldn't take 23 lbs.
So this morning I pulled that side down and tried to grab it with vice grips.
No Go.
Luckily that is a blind hole, so I masked the rest of the block with painters tape, ground the thing flat and was able to drill a hole in the stud and remove with an easy out.
It was too easy to drill out the stud though. Seemed really soft for Chromoly.
The insert came with it. Luckily I have a few spare inserts and studs in my collection.
It kind of took the wind out of my sails for today though.
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3814
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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Back together now. Time to press on.
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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rbsurfguy
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008
Posts: 1757
Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
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| Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 6:24 am Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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Jeffrey, the pic with the head in the oven made me laugh!! My wife caught me cooking gun parts in the oven after painting them with special gun coating. I did use an old baking pan lined with foil though instead of laying them directly on the oven racks. Sure I'll be doing it again, though on a Saturday morning when she is at work!
Great job on the heads.
Jeff
_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold
See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3814
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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She liked the crankshaft in the freezer too!
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3814
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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So I started assembly of the "Cooling System"
A little hammer work and the sled tins fit over the cool tins just fine.
Not sure if the gaps are crucial, nor do I know what to do about them if they are.
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3814
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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Now I'm making plug wires.
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3814
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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Hello again,
It's been slow going lately what with work, vacation and all.
I did manage to fit the hard fuel line kit from Airkewld.
I ORDERED THE WRONG KIT!
The kit I ordered was for the 7mm banjo not the 12 mm. My bad.
Pete was kind enough to swap the banjos out for me over a year later.
Either I lost the 5 inch down tube or it was never in the kit but since I had to bend it anyway I ordered 48 inches of tubing so I could make all the mistakes I needed to. I kept either forgetting to slide the fittings on before I flared it or I put them on the wrong way.
Nevertheless, here it is fitted. I didn't tighten anything down as it all has to come off to install the engine.
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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rbsurfguy
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008
Posts: 1757
Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:38 am Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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Looks Awesome Jeffrey, I really enjoy watching your updates. I've been adopting (read-ripping off) a lot of your same ideas along the way for my Ghia! I like the hard lines, but I think I'll go with the flexible stainless braided lines for my engine, I trust myself more with flexible lines than doing all the bends and flaring. Good work as always.
Jeff
_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold
See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3814
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:47 am Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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Thanks man.
I’m waiting for one last fitting which should arrive today and then it’s time to stuff that beast into the car. That’s when I’ll find out if I’m still any good at this.
LET THE TREPIDATION BEGIN!
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Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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Evil_Fiz
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1045
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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Congrats, you must have some super secret mojo going on. I tried using that same tubing bender to bend some 8mm NiCopp fuel lines and ended up having to use the spring type bender instead. The engine looks great BTW.
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Emil
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“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3814
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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Not so super secret Mojo I'm afraid.
If you look closely you'll see there is no ferule for the flare on that already bent tube.
I must have done that about three times and put them on backward twice.
I should really try to change the name of my thread to "Drinking with Rose"
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:56 am Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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| jeffrey8164 wrote: |
Not so super secret Mojo I'm afraid.
If you look closely you'll see there is no ferule for the flare on that already bent tube.
I must have done that about three times and put them on backward twice.
I should really try to change the name of my thread to "Drinking with Rose" |
Don't you mean "Drinking with Rosé"? |
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3814
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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I’ve only been drunk on Rose’ once when I was 16.
Never again!
In fact that episode ruined wine for me forever.
I’ll stick to Beer and the occasional Scotch.
I don’t lose my mind with those.
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3814
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: I'm refreshing Rose. My 70/71 bastard child. |
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OK so I've started stuffing the engine in:
I had to raise the car pretty high to roll it under:
The damn thing wouldn't go in!
Turns out the ultra cool CB Performance valve covers were hitting the sheet metal on the sides of the engine apron!
So now I've officially modified the car. I took a 1/4 inch off the offending areas.
Now they fit at least.
And It's in!
Next was to fit the puzzle piece exhaust
Trimmed the gaskets to fit the tinwork:
And we're off!
And here she is in her current state.
Next up is finalizing everything under the car. Fuel Lines, throttle cable, adjust the clutch cable, etc.
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Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
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