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Ericfb Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2018 Posts: 48 Location: Ottawa, ON
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:53 am Post subject: 1974 Camper engine conversion! ABA 2.0 |
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Hi Folks,
While I have been on this site about a million times over the last 6 years that I've owned my camper this will be my first post.
I've always wanted to do an engine conversion but never pulled the trigger. The 1800cc ran poor, OK and good but never great. It also never ran so bad that I had enough incentive to actually follow through with a swap. That is until last fall on my way to storage when it developed a harsh bottom end knock about 500 ft from my house. Finally I had a good enough reason to pull the flat 4 for the last time.
Engine choice:
Years ago when I first started wanting to do the swap I wanted to go TDI. I opted out of this simply because of gearing. I figure it would effectively double the cost of the swap. And I figure I could always convert to diesel later on in the future if I REALLY wanted to.
Subaru: I considered this for about a day. Main reasons I opted out were that I didn't want to mix blood. The other reason was I prefer buying an old VW engine over an old Subaru engine. For some reason, without knowing the history I feel like a 2.0 out of a golf or Jetta would be more resilient to neglect than and old Subaru. Also piston slap and bad head gaskets are real.
VW: Originally the plan was 1999.5-2001 Golf or Jetta. Drive by cable AEG. There are a ton of these for sale under $1k and can even be found with decently low mileage. They are fairly robust and decently non-complicated. I opted out of this because of the immobilizer. Yes I could have the ECU flashed but that's just 1 more expense and step in an already complicated project.
Finally I settled on and ABA 2.0. They are not as easy to find but can be had dirt cheap. I picked up a 1997 with 190xxx which after I scrap will literally be free.
Last edited by Ericfb on Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ericfb Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2018 Posts: 48 Location: Ottawa, ON
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:34 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Camper engine conversion! ABA 2.0 |
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Not too much work done yet.
- Engine out of the van
- Engine out of the golf
- Harness mostly out of the golf.
Cost of the conversion so far doesn't seem like it's going to be too bad.
Other than a bunch of not-very-exciting tune up parts for the engine i've ordered a KEP adapter plate. This so far has been the single most expensive part. I'm not complaining because they need to charge enough for it to be worth it for them. For what you get I think it's totally fair, and they were a pleasure to deal with. It just sucks that the Canadian $ is only worth about $0.79US. $80 shipping and $160 at the border puts the part at just under $900CAD.
Still need to order:
Rad - I'm going to belly mount it - Obviously!
Any suggestions from other conversions? This one has me a bit stumped. So far i'm looking at something like (part# CU959) out of a '85 dodge D150 with a 20lb rad cap, but would prefer something like the rad that came in the golf - but bigger. - Inlet/ outlet on the same end with no rad cap on the radiator.
Fans - I'll probably get a couple flex-a-lite fans. Likely get 2 smaller ones so I can tuck the rad up higher between the frame rails without the fan motor getting in the way of shift rod + other stuff. I've seen a couple Chinese fans on amazon for about 1/5 the price but this kind of thing freaks me out a bit, especially considering belly mount will get very limited airflow and I really don't want to get stuck on the side of the road with my family because I cheeped out! But nice or buy twice.
Currently planning on using the factory engine carrier but remounting it/ modifying it. Not sure what I'm going to do about mounts yet but we'll cross that bridge later.
Thanks in advance as i'm sure i'll be posting questions as this project moves forward.
More to come!
Cheers
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15129 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Camper engine conversion! ABA 2.0 |
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andrew flint has used the vanagon radiator it has both in/out on the bottom and no rad cap. it's sized just fine for ~250hp vans with AC running big tires in the southwest. so there's plenty of room for loss of efficiency in a belly mount and 115hp ABA motor. Andrews was a 190hp reverse 1.8T in a bay.
he didn't give exact details as many don't but here's his thread.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668352&highlight=1.8t
watching this thread _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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Sloride Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2002 Posts: 925
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Ericfb Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2018 Posts: 48 Location: Ottawa, ON
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Camper engine conversion! ABA 2.0 |
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Thanks Craig, and yes i'm looking forward to it. Last summer we took the back roads to a camp site near Kingston and I thought for sure it was going to burst into flames going up some of those gentle hills.
I'm sure we'll be in touch, i'm also in Kanata, small world! |
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Sloride Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2002 Posts: 925
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Ericfb Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2018 Posts: 48 Location: Ottawa, ON
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Camper engine conversion! ABA 2.0 |
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Update:
Progress is slow but steady. Family time is really getting in the way of progress. (Sarcasm... but true)
Engine has been pulled and the car sent to scrap. I was so excited to get rid of the donor car to open up my work area that I left the throttle cable and throttle position sensor in the car... Hoping to get those from a u-pull scrap yard.
Started replacing a bunch of stuff on the engine, got a few wrong parts only to realize it was the wrong parts that I had ordered. Re-ordered and life goes on. The nice thing about having so many small tasks is there is never really a setback, I just have to work on something else. Like chiseling the rust off the block and re-painting it.
Much weeding has been going on with the harness as well, so far i've just about filled a 5G pail with scrap wire. Not done yet.
Got my KEP adapter plate fitted with a new clutch.
Slid the engine under the van and called it a day. Was getting late and had to get home to put the little one to bed.
Right now i'm looking for a fuel return line solution, anyone have a genius idea for me? I'd like to install a barbed fitting into the filler neck. For my '74 i'm not seeing anything that would be easy to T into and i'm not really interested in using a Y on the bottom of the tank. Maybe braze the fitting to the pipe? |
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KrisBalfe Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2004 Posts: 831 Location: SLC
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Camper engine conversion! ABA 2.0 |
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Awesome, that is the engine I decided on as well.
Maybe swap in a late bay tank that already has the fuel return? |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5680 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:15 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Camper engine conversion! ABA 2.0 |
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For my radiator I got on Summit Racing and ordered the largest aluminum radiator that would fit between the frame rails. I honestly don't remember what it was originally for.
I then took it to a friends and he welded up the filler hole and added 1.25 outlets (I used 90 degree bends so the outlets would face where I wanted) instead of the larger ones that came with the radiator. Works well for me.
If you want to see a lot of things that don't work plus what does work for me, read through my long thread!
What angle are you mounting the engine at? Will there be any clearance issues with the intake?
If you can find a later Bay tank, that would likely be the easiest solution for the fuel return question.
Good luck! I can't wait to see how this goes! _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5680 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:16 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Camper engine conversion! ABA 2.0 |
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SloRide:
I'm curious what your mileage is on your Bus?
As I was filling my '78's tank with Diesel this morning, I was ruminating on Ericfb's comments on why he went from TDI to the ABA motor. Especially the extra costs associated with regearing the transmission. Mine needed rebuilt anyway, but I did spend some extra money with gearing changes.
And more than once I've looked at SloRide's pics and admired the comparable simplicity of the conversion compared to everything I had to do to get the TDI running.
The engine in my '73 is running well but one day it'll be worn out. I like the TDI platform but with the extra costs that were mentioned, I don't know that I'll got that direction next time. _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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tristessa Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004 Posts: 3992 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:21 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Camper engine conversion! ABA 2.0 |
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vwwestyman wrote: |
I like the TDI platform but with the extra costs that were mentioned, I don't know that I'll got that direction next time. |
The 1.8t is awesome, especially when coupled with a 5-speed box geared from the factory for the engine's powerband. Hint hint. |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5680 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:28 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Camper engine conversion! ABA 2.0 |
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tristessa wrote: |
vwwestyman wrote: |
I like the TDI platform but with the extra costs that were mentioned, I don't know that I'll got that direction next time. |
The 1.8t is awesome, especially when coupled with a 5-speed box geared from the factory for the engine's powerband. Hint hint. |
Very good point. But that adds in more complexity to the system! The simplicity of the ABA is a big part of the appeal to me. _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5680 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:28 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Camper engine conversion! ABA 2.0 |
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vwwestyman wrote: |
tristessa wrote: |
vwwestyman wrote: |
I like the TDI platform but with the extra costs that were mentioned, I don't know that I'll got that direction next time. |
The 1.8t is awesome, especially when coupled with a 5-speed box geared from the factory for the engine's powerband. Hint hint. |
Very good point. But that adds in more complexity to the system! The simplicity of the ABA is a big part of the appeal to me. |
But hopefully, I won't have to worry about that for a few more years! _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15129 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:29 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Camper engine conversion! ABA 2.0 |
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from someone who has and has had a plethora of different power plants.
I like and promote the simplicity of the ABA motor. OBD-II would be best as you can then monitor engine vitals via Torque app or scanguage.. the benefit is that those values are exactly as the ECM sees the sensors too.
2nd in simplicity and economy would be a subie 2.2
last I'd suggest to people would be a turbo charged swap.. (that's what I drive (in a vanagon) btw) unless you like your hobby car to be a hobby itself more than it already is.
sure the power is awesome.. but the added complexity to a roadtrip vehicle is daunting and at times makes me nervous. as when shyt hits the fan, you don't want an obscure adapted piece of kit (ie. modified radiators).
*sorry vwwestyman love your swap but sometimes rocks, deer, or curbs happen.. _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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Sloride Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2002 Posts: 925
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5680 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Camper engine conversion! ABA 2.0 |
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danfromsyr wrote: |
from someone who has and has had a plethora of different power plants.
I like and promote the simplicity of the ABA motor. OBD-II would be best as you can then monitor engine vitals via Torque app or scanguage.. the benefit is that those values are exactly as the ECM sees the sensors too.
2nd in simplicity and economy would be a subie 2.2
last I'd suggest to people would be a turbo charged swap.. (that's what I drive (in a vanagon) btw) unless you like your hobby car to be a hobby itself more than it already is.
sure the power is awesome.. but the added complexity to a roadtrip vehicle is daunting and at times makes me nervous. as when shyt hits the fan, you don't want an obscure adapted piece of kit (ie. modified radiators).
*sorry vwwestyman love your swap but sometimes rocks, deer, or curbs happen.. |
No worries. Those things are very much a part of why I envy the simplicity I have seen in other swaps.
It all seemed like a good idea at the time!
But you're absolutely right. For example, I did some modifications to the intercooler's coolant plumbing system last summer shortly before a trip to Colorado. The trip out was a nightmare because the tubing I originally selected kept getting loose when it warmed up and popping off the fittings. (It was clear reinforced nylon? hose-I'd used it in a much smaller diameter with no problems in my engine's air bleeder hose to identify the tiny head gasket leak in the spring prior.)
So I bought rubber heater hose and limped along to my final destination for the night, and installed that the next morning and have been fine since.
I originally installed the clear hose because I thought it would be valuable to be able to see if all the air is out of the system.
All that to say, I fully acknowledge (now) that there is value in having as much stuff as possible not be "experimental" in a swap. Especially if a road trip is planned any time soon! Simplicity is way better in those kinds of cases.
The turbo IS fun to get into while driving the Bus, no question about it. But having it does add a LOT of complexity to the system overall.
Even though some of the things I've gone through are a little embarrassing, I view it as a learning experience and post about it to help others out. _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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Ericfb Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2018 Posts: 48 Location: Ottawa, ON
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Camper engine conversion! ABA 2.0 |
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Ouuu, ya a turbo does sound like it could be fun. Maybe my next project, except probably not in a bus, could be a cool swap in a beetle. My wife has always wanted a convertible beetle which could be a great opportunity to take on a ridiculous project. But yes, aba obd2 for a great balance of simplicity and function. I'm also looking forward to obd2 diagnostics and possible hooking it up with a tablet as mention above.
I'm trying to use "stock" parts as much as possible. Idea behind that is if a stick or something goes through my rad on a road trip, I want to be able to call whatever autoparts store is closest, buy the rad from "vehicle x", and install it in the parking lot. Maybe I watch too much roadkill but it makes the best sense to me. Much more cost efficient too, had a custom ran in a bmw e30 I used to own that cost me what felt like a months pay.
Tomorrow i'm going to make a U shape out of some 5/16 fuel line and braze it to the filler neck. Then yank on it until i'm happy with the strength... I figure its a good place to start because it'll be a small hole haha. Not sure what plan B is yet. Worst case scenario, I get a late bay tank... Photos to follow.
Toddler is sleeping, wife is out with friends. Time to drink beer! I mean sort through wiring.... |
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Sloride Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2002 Posts: 925
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Camper engine conversion! ABA 2.0 |
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I had a return line brazed into the bottom of my tank by a local rad and gas tank repair place so it is just like the fuel injected tank. Others have commented that there were easier ways to do it but that's what I did and it works fine. If I recall correctly I even asked them to run the line up into the tank three or so inches like the fi tank.
The place I should on Gladstone. It's called dominion rad repair.
C _________________ 1972 Westfalia - 1.8 VW in-line h2o conversion
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Link to the engine swap:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=565304&highlight=
1964 Ruby Red Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=705757&highlight=ruby+red |
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Ericfb Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2018 Posts: 48 Location: Ottawa, ON
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Camper engine conversion! ABA 2.0 |
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Update:
This will be a short one but basically I got the engine withing 1/2" of mating to the trans. This was with the intake and coolant flange removed, and the breather crushed against the top of the engine bay with the perforated board and insulation removed.... Also the 1 pin sensor on the back of the head was touching the firewall and preventing me from closing the 1/2" gap. I ran out of time to monkey around with it, am I missing something? From what I read it should slide in @15 degrees. Based on my struggles it's looking like I need to slide the trans back and down about an inch in each direction. Even then it will be very tight to get the intake on and a horizontal coolant flange.
More to come. |
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Sloride Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2002 Posts: 925
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