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Berry Mini-T build v2.0
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EVfun
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

This is a little thread to collect some images and share ideas while I am rebuilding my Mini-T. The buggy was originally put back together a few years ago, and this time I'm going a different route. I ordered a turnkey stock 1600 single port engine from MoFoCo. I have to supply and air filter that will clear the body. I also have to supply the exhaust, I want something pretty quiet and it needs to allow the heat riser to properly function. One thought is to run reproduction '73 Thing dual exhaust. I'm open to ideas! Many aftermarket systems don't have functioning heat risers.

I stashed my oval window in my parents garage while there are down in Arizona to give me some room to disassemble the buggy. I mentioned in this thread how I made the body quick and easy to remove, so this was a lot less work that it looks like.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I pulled the transaxle completely as it had long ('67) axles and the pilot shaft cut off the end of the input shaft.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

At that point I found the studs for the front mount where getting cut by the front mount so I cut them off, filed the ends flat, center punched. and then drilled them out and replaced the studs with cap screws.

At this point I have a clean '64 transaxle installed and the gas tank mounted. I will get some pictures of that in my Samba gallery soon. There are a few pictures in the gallery I haven't linked too if anyone wants to look. In some slack time I was playing with the body and came up with this. It also shows the new front wheels, I previously posted about those.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

After getting everything done back there my next step will be to cut out the top of the tunnel and do a little work inside. I have a nice early '60's pedal assembly with the clutch pedal still attached. I need to cut back and clutch tube in the tunnel and brace it. That was not needed before so the clutch cable still ends at the forward pedal mount location.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I also plan to move the shifter back 4 or 5 inches to just in front of the ebrake. Of course, I should be out there working instead of in here posting. Laughing
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weasel_ugs
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

Are you putting the electric propulsion system in another vehicle?
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EVfun
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

The motor and batteries found a new home in western WA. The motor controller has found a new home in Texas. In the electric vehicle groups I have some other EV parts for sale. Now that I can go out an buy an EV I'm no longer planning on building any on-road ones. I want to take my buggy out on some of the local runs and perhaps even a tour.

It was gas powered from the original builder back in the early '70's until I found it abandoned in '91. I drove it gas powered from '92 to '99, electric from '00 through '17, and now it will be back to gasoline for as long as I want to own it. Since I wanted an on-road beach buggy since I was a child that ls likely to be many more years. Smile
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weasel_ugs
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

Since working on the GM EV1 I have wanted an electric vehicle. Like you mentioned you can buy them now and Im thinking about a Tesla.
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mini t
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:08 am    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

i have the same body and when i built mine i cut the tunnel just behind nepolians hat and moved everything back about 6 inch then what i cut out from behind the shifter i put 6 inch back in front of the peddles and only had to extend my brake peddle rod
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

In a Mini-T, since the pedals are well back from the front bulkhead where the floor is also wider, there would be plenty of room to use a pair of sand rail type hydraulic pedals, one for a clutch and a separate one for a brake.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

mini t wrote:
i have the same body and when i built mine i cut the tunnel just behind nepolians hat and moved everything back about 6 inch then what i cut out from behind the shifter i put 6 inch back in front of the peddles and only had to extend my brake peddle rod

I always wondered why the instructions weren't written that way. The designed way involved a whole lot of cutting on the top half of the tunnel.

I have seriously considered adding a separate hydraulic clutch pedal, you can buy single pedals and it would be easy to mod the top to take a stock pedal cover for good looks. I see 2 reasons against it:

I don't think the sheet metal floor is really up to to stress without excess flex (stock or my 16 gauge floor.) If the floor is wiggling under the load the clutch will most likely have a terrible feel (kinda defeats the main reason in favor of a hydraulic clutch.) It means stress on the hard line leaving the clutch cylinder. I'm not sure sure what beefing up would be needed and I didn't really want to flip the chassis over to weld.

I have to move the shifter back anyway, so the tunnel will need to be cut. See how close the shifter base is to the new pedal location. If you look at my pictures you will see the pedal shaft was cut and laid back about 45 degrees, under the boot right near the top of it. I bet in all the pictures posted so far the transaxle is in 1st gear. In 1st and 3rd gear the shifter was actually partly under the dash. I had to be careful going into 3rd, making sure not to catch the bottom of the ignition switch. There are about 5 inches between the shifter and the e-brake handle (using a later short handle on an older Bug frame.) I plan to move the shifter back around 4 inches.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

I don't believe Neal started making hydraulic clutch slave cylinders until after 1970 or so. I got one in 1974. The stand alone cast pedal mount sets came after that

Beefing up the floor under the pedals should be a straight forward job. Here is some good info by Joe Sellars about clutch masters.

jsturtlebuggy wrote:
5/8in master cylinder is what is commonly used in Neal/CNC setups.
Makes for a easier to push pedal.
Going to a bigger 3/4in will make the pedal harder to push, but it will have more travel. Meaning the slave will travel further.
Another thing is the length of the pedal will make a differences. Short pedal, less leverage. Wil-Wood makes different length pedals.


When I move a shifter back in a Manx, I need to shorten the front of the shift rod not the back or I cut off the bent section which clears the underside of the parking brake. I have no idea about the Mini-T

Some people will just make them fit with a little brute force.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

That could have been done a little prettier. Smile

Looking at it I think a 3/4 inch square tube from the tunnel to the outside of the floor (those are 3/4 inch square tubes) and one from that tube forward to the napoleons hat could provide the structure. I'd weld a 1/8 inch flat plate to them and bolt a single pedal through the plate, the floor, and have a second plate under the floor to tie things together. I'd have to hack the shifter more, adding around 6 inches to the length in the middle.

I'm convinced to take a second look at this... With a quick search I couldn't find the pictures or construction thread I'm looking for. How do I set up the slave system at the rear? I have an older transaxle with the built in bowden tube mount as part of the side cover and the curved clutch cable arm. If someone can point me to the right thread, some good pictures, or a parts needed list that would be great. I will look around theSamba a little more too.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

Typical VW mentality, whole world is going electric, you are reverting back to internal combustion....

Dale
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

EVfun wrote:
With a quick search I couldn't find the pictures or construction thread I'm looking for. How do I set up the slave system at the rear? I have an older transaxle with the built in bowden tube mount as part of the side cover and the curved clutch cable arm. If someone can point me to the right thread, some good pictures, or a parts needed list that would be great. I will look around theSamba a little more too.


It should bolt right in in place between the Bowden tube bracket and the throw out arm.

They have nylon hydraulic line but FLAPS metal brake line to a braided stainless line is better.

Here's a thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654635

There are forward mounts which allow the slave cylinder to deflect and move up/down as the throw out lever arm moves through its arc, reducing side load/wear on the slave cylinder

http://www.mooreparts.com/clutch-slave-accessories/

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

Dale M. wrote:
Typical VW mentality, whole world is going electric, you are reverting back to internal combustion....

Dale

Razz Of course...
If MoFoCo didn't install alternators with internal regulators on their turn key engines I would run a generator and mechanical regulator too. I'm going old school (aside from the Speedhut instruments.) I've visited the future, built 3 of my own electric cars, and it was fun. Now I'm going to visit the aircooled land that time forgot (again.) Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

BL3Manx wrote:
It should bolt right in in place between the Bowden tube bracket and the throw out arm.

They have nylon hydraulic line but FLAPS metal brake line to a braided stainless line is better.

Here's a thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=654635

Good thread find, I missed that one.
I did fine a very relevant picture from Paul Deatherage. I always thought the angle changes would require some heim joint solution, but it seems that isn't the case. This one picture in particular looks just like my side cover and clutch arm.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It looks like I could locate a heim joint above and just behind the existing bowden tube mount by making a mount from a block of aluminum, but clearly it isn't required.

I did find this picture from Wythac too, also with a CNC slave and a side cover with built in bowden tube mount.

This leaves me one other big question. What about line adapters? Most of this stuff comes in inch sizes and I think would be easier (just one adapter at each end) to run another VW metric brake line and use a short brake hose as the flexible union between the slave and a mounting bracket under the gas tank.
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Last edited by EVfun on Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

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Damn, am I the bad example again?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

You can get metric 10x1.00mm to 1/8NPT fittings.
CNC masters and slave cylinder can be bought with them installed.
You really want to install a flex line at the clutch slave cylinder as it does move some when being used.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

jsturtlebuggy wrote:
You can get metric 10x1.00mm to 1/8NPT fittings.
CNC masters and slave cylinder can be bought with them installed.
You really want to install a flex line at the clutch slave cylinder as it does move some when being used.

My thought is that if I go this route I will use an IRS Bug rear flex hose from the clutch slave to a tab on the bottom of the gas tank mounting frame. The flex hose would attach to that tab just like the brake line flex hoses clip to the frame.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

Recent pics. The Chinese brake calipers are 10mm bubble, so all was converted to 10mm bubble.
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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

Good image cbeck. It looks about like what I have in mind about using a VW flex hose to go from the clutch slave up to the bottom of the gas tank frame. The more I think about this and see the input from other buggy enthusiasts the more I become convinced that I will go with a hydraulic clutch. I'll have to extend the shifter, but that is easier than all the frame open changes needed to get my nice used (looks near new) pedal cluster I found into the car. I can add about 6 inches between the 2 factory bends in the stock '64 shifter

Here is an old shot showing the cut and bend on the shifter, I suspect in 2nd gear.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Also, I got a my Speedhut gas gauge and capacitive sender Saturday. Here is a shot of my new fuel gauge and the matching speedometer in the dash. I want to thank Speedhut for their great customer service that allowed them to tell me the options required to make my new gauge match my older purchase from them.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

EVfun wrote:
I always thought the angle changes would require some heim joint solution, but it seems that isn't the case.


I would say one of the "Saver" pivot mounts is not absolutely essential/required, however the action is smoother and the wear caused by side load on the slave cylinder is reduced.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:52 am    Post subject: Re: Berry Mini-T build v2.0 Reply with quote

I ordered parts for a hydraulic clutch last night. I have a CNC clutch slave cylinder, a single pedal bracket, a Wilwood Girling 5/8 inch bore master cylinder, and adapters to 10mm bubble flare lines for each end. I'll be making another order soon for the brake hard and soft lines.

BL3Manx, I would do up the slave like that but what I have on the car looks just like the one I posted above with the built in bowden tube bracket and curved clutch lever. I'm certainly not going to tear the transaxle down to change the cover, but I have an idea on how to locate a heim joint above and just behind the side cover bracket if there is any binding. Still, I see plenty of examples running through the stock boden tube mount and I will chamfer the back edge where the ball seat will sit.

The CNC slave has a 7/8 inch bore. The Wilwood master has a 5/8 inch bore. My main concern is if I will have sufficient movement at the release lever. It seems to be the most recommended combo so I guess it works.
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