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Java Green '64 with tree damage.
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KollynnBlackpaw
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

Heya all! Semi-new to the beetle world (had a 70 that I sold off and never did a lot to) but been around the bus and Type 3. Here's my new pickup! Not sure what I'll do with him. Fix him? Sell him? Part him? Do a roadster? I'd love some advice!

This is Eiche, or Ike for short. Eiche being Oak, the type of tree that fell on him!


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Where the tree hit, pretty obviously. Nasty damage to the roof, C pillars, and vent around the decklid, but other than that he's alright. The quarter
windows even somehow survived!

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Spare engine. Not sure on the CC.

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Underside of engine and good look at pans falling out.

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His current engine. Again, not sure on the CC, but it should be a 1200 40 horse I believe.

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Interior shots. that one big rip in the driver seat is the worst thing other than the doorcards. Also a neat shift knob? Dunno what it's off or anything. Looks like those Formula Vee ones. Should be similar year, too? Might be one!

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VWOA? Roof rack, with original clips.

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Sweet spare tire! In pretty good condition too. The headlight cover glass is pretty nice as well. Not sure what those big loop fletmetal straps are for? Heater?

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Weird distributor that came with it in the back.

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Seems like I have everything to get him going again, just sitting in the back! I'll be taking a look at the engine and deciding what to do before attempting to get him to run at all.


Let me know if you spot anything neat I might have missed, or have any info on the rack and shift knob! Glad to have a pre 68 car finally. I guess technically Frau the bus was made in 67, if that counts.
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

graft on a sun roof clip, plus what else is needed!

Good Luck, keep us updated, Bug On!
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KollynnBlackpaw
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
graft on a sun roof clip, plus what else is needed!

Good Luck, keep us updated, Bug On!


Thank you! I was thinking about a roof re-do. It depends if I can get the C pillars to pull out right, and then if I can get the roof to pop out with a forklift or something maybe. If not, I'll see about a new roof.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:39 am    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

Trug! Trug!Trug!
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:58 am    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

That's quite a hardship case...

You have nothing to lose by first trying to reshape the roof using simple methods. Try lying on the back seat and pressing up on the roof sections with your feet, wearing sturdy work boots. Also bash up on the dents with the large end of a baseball bat. If you have a scissor jack, you can support that on some 2x6 boards on the rear of the pan's transmission hump, using a wooden fence post to reach the roof. Slowly crank the jack up to push the roof metal out, and reposition. See where that all gets you. Of course, much more finessing is needed, and you can use a used rear window glass as a template to check progress. When metal is creased like that from a large impact, even if you bend it back to its original shape, the crease provides a weak point. I would not be surprised if you can get the roof back to a general overall shape so that you can get the back window in, and thereby close off the interior compartment. Any additional reshaping would be a bonus. You could keep that "battered" look to go along with all the paint fading.

The toughest area to reshape will be to the right of the rear window, since the inner roof panel was also compacted. Another good tool to use to pull out the roof skin at that area would be a "stud gun" which spot-welds small metal studs like nails onto the metal. The stud head grips the roof surface, and the stud legs serve as grips for a dent-puller. You'd need a few dozen studs for this work, keeping them on and pulling maybe 1/2 inch at a time. Once you pull the metal back into the general shape, you grind off the studs. With this tool you don't break through the roof skin.

The spare engine would be a 1200cc 40hp, identified by the separate generator stand and the flat flange on top of the cylinder heads where the intake manifold is fastened.

The shift knob is a popular late '60's accessory, available either from VW dealers or aftermarket (Vilem B Haan, MG Mitten, Poly Pad Imports, EMPI, etc.). Usually made of walnut. Could be saved by mixing some walnut wood sawdust into white glue, and filling the two cracks with the mix. Apply painter's tape along each edge so that glue does not get onto the good wood, and spread the glue into the crack using swipes of a toothpick. Let dry, sand the cracks and the entire knob with fine sandpaper, then apply stain. Polish the shift gate pattern with a gentle chrome polish such as Simichrome, Flitz. Touch up any pockmarks in the enamel shift pattern with a dab of touch-up paint, letting each drop dry before putting on more. Tedious, but a gratifying rainy-day project.

Your roof rack would be a genuine VW accessory sold by a VW dealer, per the "ZVW..." part number.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

Push out the roof, get it running, and ROLL IT!!!

I had a 64 Ghia a barn collapsed on. I put a piece of plywood in the car, laid on my back, and pushed with my feet. I also used a jack to push, a come along and a tree to pull, and kept working the roof until I got it pretty straight. Just keep working it until you get there. You'd be surprised.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:47 am    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

If you're truly wanting to save the car, and have something nice, take it to a frame shop. Someone that knows their way around a frame machine can get the shape of the body much closer to where it should be, significantly lessening the work of the final repair. If you are going to graft a new roof in, take the section for measurements. If you have another Beetle, or could get a friend with one to stop at the shop that would be even better. Every instance I've known where someone "worked it with grandads come along off the big ass tree in the backyard" actually made it worse.

At the time I got the car in my avatar sprayed, the shop had an 80's Crown Vic that had been hit hard in the rear, and buckled the drivers quarter badly. The owner couldn't afford to have the car totaled, and simply didn't have the money for a proper repair. The body shop owner, and the frame guy worked on the car after hours, and literally pulled the quarter straight.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

Interesting pair of brackets under the hood in the front. Looks like they would hold a barrel type extra gas tank ...or perhaps a propane tank? Was the car converted to run on propane at some point?? I agree with the other 'pop up the roof' commentors. Worth a serious try.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

I refuse to give false hope with suggestions of boots and bats. That roof- including the inner and outer vents and everything above the beltline trim is gone. You do not have a "weld-on dent puller posts and pull" dents here. You have double walled steel that is completely crushed together. The firewall is compromised because it and the lower inlet tray vent is one-piece. The malalignment of the quarter panels surrounding the windows will not be corrected with roof work. I'm just being honest. If you have a thing for java green '64s that's one thing. If you can stomp on a soup can and open it back up into a perfect cylinder- you have what it takes to do a fraction of the roof work needed here. But this a major project to save what is otherwise a very common car. Unfortunately I see Ike as a parts car. Roadster it if you're into it but it will never again have a roof on it. Come over to Idaho- we've got a ton of builder replacements.

The knob is neat, a $15 item at swaps and is a late 60s accessory. The rack is a really nice condition early 70s item- and I'd put it at $150-175 because of its shine and label condition. I bought rack several years ago just like yours and it was so nice I had to buy a '71 car to go under it.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

That was exactly what I thought when I saw the brackets. Propane?!
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

Digger89L wrote:
Interesting pair of brackets under the hood in the front. Looks like they would hold a barrel type extra gas tank ...or perhaps a propane tank? Was the car converted to run on propane at some point?? I agree with the other 'pop up the roof' commentors. Worth a serious try.



Maybe an extra gasoline tank? The engine bay photos show a standard gasoline fuel filter and plumbing to the carb. on the stock gas tank note the extra hose on the backside of the filler neck. perhaps that was a fill hose from the upper auxiliary tank?. If not, what could that extra hose before?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

It depends on what you want and what you want to spend.

If you want a pristine show car restored to perfection, start with a better car. Part this one out or sell it.

If you got this cheap, you don't want to put a ton of $ in it, and you want a patina roller to drive and enjoy, work the roof out best you can. What do you have to lose? If you're not happy with the result, splice in new panels or get a frame shop to work it.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

Wow!!! Thank you all for the immediate help and interest!

To Digger: I don't think it was converted to propane, the original gas tank is still in it and seems to be still hooked up as pointed out by Bluebus, the filter and whatnot are still hooked up. I have a feeling it was a spare gas tank or maybe a gas heater, as the hose probably ran to the gas tank as a vent or to pull gas when it was out? Not sure.

To Sharp: A trug would be neato if I can't fix this roof at all! Are there any stepside trugs?

To Rome: Thank you so much for all the info! Seriously big help. I had heard about the jack idea before. I may try the back seat use your legs idea, but I'm not sure how sturdy the back seat floor is. The shifter knob looks fairly nice and I'll attempt to fix it if I can. And I thought the rack was VWOA, sweet! And thank you as well for the help on the spare engine ID, I'm not great with IDing engines. I think I like your battered idea going along with the patina.

HippyTom: That's what I was thinking but I can't weld for the new floorpans. He's also missing the key. Any way I can (attempt to) start the car without a key? Or will I have to dig out the key code off the ignition and have a new one made?

gkeeton: I apprentice at a restoration shop, so one of the metal guys I work with may have some ideas.

hitest: I'd say it's all worth trying and see what works, but I guarentee it'll never be the same as it was unless I really get too much into it. I'm not shy from the horrors of car restoration, and I know at one point something's going to take too much money to fix the right way. As Rome said, I may go with the battered look if I can.

Hippytom again: I did get it fairly cheap, but there's no way in hell I'd want a show car out of it, let alone expect one! I think as I mentioned above, we may just go with whatever we can get back from the metal. Even if I have to make a plexiglass rear window just because a normal one won't fit.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

No Key Required. You can easily access the wires on the ignition switch by removing the wiring cover. Use some alligator clips connected by wire and connect the ignition then tap a couple more to engage the started until it fires. A new keyed ignition switch is cheap, but you don't need one to get it started. Hot-wire city!!!
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

HippyTom wrote:
No Key Required. You can easily access the wires on the ignition switch by removing the wiring cover. Use some alligator clips connected by wire and connect the ignition then tap a couple more to engage the started until it fires. A new keyed ignition switch is cheap, but you don't need one to get it started. Hot-wire city!!!


Oh! Actually I just remembered I have some universal ignitions somewhere burried in the garage. If I can find them, I can hook those up!
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

Having someone with metalworking knowledge is key. With that, knowing where to move the metal, and how much is really the most important than with what it is moved with. There's no reason this couldn't be a show car. It's about what you want to put into it, and what you want as a final product. Simply getting it back on the road with the roof still caved in would be a cool accomplishment. Everyone seems to think this is a car you find everywhere cheap. Having searched, and bought VW's since 89, in PA. this is NOT a car you find everywhere. Can you still find better examples of a 64 Beetle, sure. You can't pick up an Auto Trader, search CL, or even here in the classifieds and find 5-10 60's Beetles at the drop of a hat that are within a 1/2 hour drive like you could 25 years ago. No one would be questioning this repair if it was a Split Beetle.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

You’d be on your own for a stepside pickup bed. I saw one done really well in the late 80’s down in Tampa. Looked like they used the stock fenders and fabricated up the bed part. At least from what I remember. Wish I could find that thing. It was really nice.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
Having someone with metalworking knowledge is key. With that, knowing where to move the metal, and how much is really the most important than with what it is moved with. There's no reason this couldn't be a show car. It's about what you want to put into it, and what you want as a final product. Simply getting it back on the road with the roof still caved in would be a cool accomplishment. Everyone seems to think this is a car you find everywhere cheap. Having searched, and bought VW's since 89, in PA. this is NOT a car you find everywhere. Can you still find better examples of a 64 Beetle, sure. You can't pick up an Auto Trader, search CL, or even here in the classifieds and find 5-10 60's Beetles at the drop of a hat that are within a 1/2 hour drive like you could 25 years ago. No one would be questioning this repair if it was a Split Beetle.


Exactly my thought on the split comment. Just because it's not a splitty, or an oval, or anything else like that, it's worth saving if it can be done. The body metal is 90% rustless besides a couple cracks where it got thin in the rear fenders. The roof is the honest to god worst damage to it, and you can do a dozen different options to fix or change it. Even if it's not perfect, I'd still be happy with it.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

I like the car. It's cool. Floor pans aren't a big deal. If the heat channels, pillars, and inner fenders are solid, it's way ahead of most I've had.

The tree damage and story (and pictures) will just add character to the car. I'd leave as much of the original stuff as possible on/in the car.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Java Green '64 with tree damage. Reply with quote

I thought this may pop up on the Samba. You are the guy that beat me to the punch lol. I told them Id take it and then a few mins later said the first guy that contacted them was going to come, no worries you win some and lose some, I didnt have the space for it anyways. Actually you may have seen my '61 on craigslist last summer, I guess it depends on how often you check CL locally. I have photos in my gallery but have yet to start a thread on it here. It was posted on Corvallis Craigslist for $800 non running. Before I got there with my trailer to buy it the guy had 20+ calls and higher cash offers without seeing it. Anyways cool to see another Local-ish member around. I was just gonna take the bumpers ( I only have blades and want the towel bar style), rack and engine as I wanted a spare but I much rather see this one saved. I felt bad debating parting it and taking simply what I needed and dicing the rest up. Seeing these further photos makes me think the same still. Id get that roof hit out as best as possible and make a plexi window, roll it as a patina monster. Some day a shell of a beetle will pop up or a left for dead baja you can graft your aprons to, just transfer parts to another body then. Id roll it beat out best as possible with a plexi window tell then.

If you need roof measurements my '61 is in Albany. Also if it ever does get to parting keep me in mind for 1200CC parts and the bumpers.
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