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Sea Blue experts/nerds req'd... 2 different versions?
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dave123
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:48 am    Post subject: Sea Blue experts/nerds req'd... 2 different versions? Reply with quote

I'm soon re-painting my bus (changing the colour scheme) to sea blue and cumulous white. Sea Blue is an elusive colour and often looks very different in many pics... but now I learn there are in fact 2 versions of the colour (confusingly both with vw code L360), with different ppg/ditzler codes: 12333 and 12945.

Does anyone have any definitive info on the difference between these two? Comparison shots maybe?

I'm after the bluer version (less green) of this colour, and would like to aim for that if possible.

For interest, A while ago I gave my local spray guy the L360 code and had a test panel sprayed - here it is versus a dove blue test panel (lighter colour), with/without flash:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I wonder which version I got?

Cheers
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Aiko
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard of different shades of Sealing Wax Red but never heard of Sea Blue having different shades. The color was only used for a period of 3 years on a split so why would this have changed or vary ? Also, I wasnt aware that Ditzler was an original VW factory paint supplier.

Could it be that PPG and Ditzler have different in-house reference codes for L-360 and that is what you are seeing as different? Unless you have both companies sprayed test samples side by side for comparison, its difficult to assume they are actually different.

Even when using PPG codes its still difficult to match and may require tweaking by an experienced paint guy who knows the various split colors. I've seen several shops using the exact same code from same supplier when mixing and each bus came out a different shade variation.

Youre best bet is to find an original Sea Blue bus or parts and color match from an unexposed area or take your test panels to shows where you can compare to other buses. Digital photos arent going to be accurate for reference purposes.

Good luck !
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KWZ
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never heard of two different flavors of Sea Blue, and I'm kind of a Sea Blue freak.
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dave123
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theres definitly two versions... one was used on the Beetle (and type 3?) and the other on the bus - an early 60's and late 60's

some example threads i just found:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=169508&highlight=l360

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=184741&highlight=l360

Be very interesting to see if somebody has sprayed/compared both types from the different forumlas - to me there is just such a massive difference in colour in the many sea blue photos that i've seen... and perhaps this explains some of it?

Plus i like some versions better than others and it would be great to know which one is which!
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dave123
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a few examples of the wide variation in appearance of this colour (obviously lighting has some part to play)...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I want to avoid the version in the top picture, and would like the version closest to the bottom picture!!!
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KWZ
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That second bus looks like Smurf blue. Was there any variation of Sea Blue on buses? I have never seen a difference. I put an og paint '67 door on a '65 and the blue matches perfectly.
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hitest
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:19 am    Post subject: sea blue vs others Reply with quote

I've seen an Original Paint sea blue notch parked right next to an Original Paint sea blue bus and the results are stunning! Notice I don't use the completely abused term OG. You can't tell where one car ends and the next one starts. Never compare your research to an already-repainted car!

Walk into the paint store with an Original Paint L360 gas door and a primered one, when the paint store can make the two indistinguishable- that's the store to buy from...
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are 2 versions of sea blue. I have a PPG paint chip sheet with both versions.

I have a 60 euro Type I that was "sea blue #1" which is the darker blue with little to no green hue.

My buddy has a "sea blue #2 on his 65 type I and it is def. the green version.

Evert shop tried to tell me my glove box was not painted sea blue as they had the code to the "green" version. Until I found the chip sheet at the swap meet I thought I was going crazy!
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dave123
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so the bus one is the greener version?

thought that the bug version was darker, greener and the bus version was bluer, lighter?

got any pics of the two next to each other?
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Kombi
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There will always be variations...
However mixing from code you can only rely on the formula.

Glasurit currently list only one variation of Seablue from 59-71.

But they have the formula for 4 paint lines.... and I bet they won't all be exactly the same.

Standox also list only one variation.
I just sprayed a sample of the Standox waterborne L360 and it is the greener version for sure.

as a side note when the paint from an original one fades it will look more blue than green.

In base clear without clear it looks bluer with clear it takes on the green hue.
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dave123
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

derluftwagen wrote:
There are 2 versions of sea blue. I have a PPG paint chip sheet with both versions.


Any chance of a scan of those?
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry no scanner, and pics did not come out clear. I did see a scan online somewhere of the same sheet, I will look for it.

As far as the difference, sea blue 1 looks more like the third bus, where as sea blue 2 looks more like the first bus. The nasty smurf blue is more likely a variation due to exposure.

Edit: I noticed there are two different PPG codes for the different chips:

Sea Blue L360 PPG Code: 12333
Sea Blue 2 L360 PPG Code: 12945

On the back it shows years that specific colors were available.

Sea Blue L360 1960-1966
Sea Blue 2 L360 1963-1967

From what I have seen in person, every sea blue/white bus has been sea blue #1. Every Sea blue #2 has always been on a 65 and later type I. I have never seen Sea Blue #2 on an ORIGINAL paint bus. I have seen several restored/repainted type II with the sea blue #2.

BTW did early bus use Blue white L289 for the top of early sea blue bottom and cumulus white L680 on later sea blue? If this is true could the change in the top color reflect the change in the bottom blue (between #1 and #2)?
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found the image
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is the link to the site with the image.

http://www.tcpglobal.com/aclchip.aspx?image=1960-volkswagen-pg01.jpg

It has a magnifier so you can see it better.

I have to say, comparing the image with my chip sheet it is VERY close (on my monitor).

Hope it helps
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just looked in my ANCIENT Vintage Parts Inc catalog where it shows a split in the L289 Blue White top color from 1964 chassis 225000001 thru 1965 Chassis 225190000. L680 Cumulus White from 1965 Chassis 226000001 on.
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dave123
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

derluftwagen wrote:
As far as the difference, sea blue 1 looks more like the third bus, where as sea blue 2 looks more like the first bus.


derluftwagen, thanks for your detailed response, this is very helpful indeed Smile

I'm still confused - the quote above seems contrary to the colours on the chip...

You say Sea Blue 1 looks like the third bus pictured, which is lighter, bluer... which to me would correspond to the Sea Blue 2 colour chip better than the Sea Blue 1 chip (which looks darker, greener) Question Question Question

You will have seen more original paint sea blue busses than me here in Australia - how can you tell if they are 1 or 2 without the PPG code???

And please post more Sea Blue porn if you have any! Wink Laughing

Thanks again Cool
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dave123
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another paint swatch, indicating Sea Blue 2 to be the lighter...

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LUFTVOLKS
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dave123 wrote:
And please post more Sea Blue porn if you have any! Wink Laughing

Thanks again Cool


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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dave123
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ This is already my screensaver Embarassed
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ozinbc
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:54 am    Post subject: sea blue Reply with quote

I have an original paint bus- a 66 deluxe with the aero papyrus interior. It is closest to the sea blue , not the sea blue 2! The top is cumulus white.

Steve (Adelaide)
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KWZ
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This whole thread is fucking blowing my mind. Two Sea Blues? This is just crazy. I need to get some air. Laughing I think that only the "Sea Blue 1" appeared on busses. I have never, ever seen a difference on the busses, and I have owned eight different original paint sea blue '65-'67 busses over the years.
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