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1745cc bulld
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FreeBug
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

Stock 1303, but new front everything, new rubber for the rear torsion housing, etc, stell "stock" 5.5" rims with Michelin 185/65 R15s, font ventilated Kerscher brakes, rear rebuilt stock. Monroe shocks all around. Stock height (re-set original angle at rear). I think that covers it.
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

Wow Freebug your 1745 sounds exactly like what I want mine to do.

I just ordered the MOFOCO 040 super street heads. I think they will work well for this build. And if I get tired of the PDSITs, they should support a set HPMX carbs no problem.

now I just need a cam. Probably the CB2280 with 1.1s or 1.25s

Hopefully I can get a few hours of garage time in tonight, or tomorrow morning before work
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

The CB-2280 is a single carb cam! Pretty much for a stock carb.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

FreeBug wrote:
Stock 1303, but new front everything, new rubber for the rear torsion housing, etc, stell "stock" 5.5" rims with Michelin 185/65 R15s, font ventilated Kerscher brakes, rear rebuilt stock. Monroe shocks all around. Stock height (re-set original angle at rear). I think that covers it.

1303, say no more Smile cool!
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I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least.
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FreeBug
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

Pruneman99 wrote:
Wow Freebug your 1745 sounds exactly like what I want mine to do.


You want your engine to ping? Laughing

The CB 2280 is a great cam, I ran it in a 1679, stock carb and twin CB 34s. However, it will not pull as high as the CB 2228, abot 500 RPM lower. And if you look at it that's like 10%.

I would ask around about the Webcam 218/119, maybe also a good option? Or, on a straight-pattern cam, 1.25's on intake only? Ask the experts....
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

The performance, not the ping! Laughing
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Brian_e
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

I have used the 2239 in 3 different smaller engines now, and I am assisting a buddy in building an 1835cc T3 engine with PDSIT's and another 2239 now. All had ported stock valve heads, .045" DH, and at least 8.5:1.

My favorite of them all was a 1776cc with 40mm kad's w/28mm vents. Great little engine, great power for its size, and great MPG.

Brian
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FreeBug
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

Brian_e wrote:
I have used the 2239 in 3 different smaller engines now, and I am assisting a buddy in building an 1835cc T3 engine with PDSIT's and another 2239 now. All had ported stock valve heads, .045" DH, and at least 8.5:1.

My favorite of them all was a 1776cc with 40mm kad's w/28mm vents. Great little engine, great power for its size, and great MPG.

Brian


Good call, I've never tried the 2239, but I only hear good things. Could work well, without the need for duals.
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

I wouldn't go so far as the 218/119 but maybe the Webcam 119. I don't like what that .460" on the 218/119 lift is going to do to the valve train! But it is the ultimate Dual Carb cam for both torque good Revs. I don't know the 218/119 might be ok with CB-Ultra-light 28mm lifters aluminum racing pushrods single HD springs set a rev limit so the intake valves can't float.
I put the Webcam 118 an engine with 1.25 ratio rockers etc and it's ok, lift is up there in that range for both intakes and exhaust with that combo. Breaths like a dragon with Dell 36's.
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

I'm still looking for flow numbers for the PDSIT carbs, but I doubt lifting the valve higher than .4 is going to provide any gains. I definitely don't want to be wrecking the lifter bores for unneeded lift.
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Brian_e
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

There are many other factors than valve lift that account for lifter bore wear.

Most stock valve heads flow start to taper off around .450". Might as well use as much as you can.

For the T3 heads and carbs we are building, we used early T4 bus 34mm throttle plates, and we bored the vents to 26mm. I didn't get a chance to test the heads with the carbs mounted. I do remember the shorty T3 manifolds killed the heads. I spent a ton of time on the manifolds and didn't gain much. Lots of weld, port, test, weld, test port, etc...

The heads i ported with the T3 manifolds were only about 121cfm, and they jumped to 136cfm with an almost stock IDF manifold at .450".

Sorry. Little side track there.
Blend the seats into the bowls, do a little work above the guides, and have a real good 3 angle valve job done. .045"deck, 8.5-9.0cr and the 2239, and it will work great.

Brian
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

Actually I ordered the MOFOCO super streets today so I'll let Roy do the head work!
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Brian_e
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

Good call on the heads.

If it were mine and from my recent experience, I would pitch the T3 carbs now, and save yourself a bunch of time. Clone IDF's are cheap enough now. Get a pair of eBay IDF's, a cb linkage and manifolds, and you will be way farther ahead in the long run. Even some rebuilt swap meet kad's.

Brian
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

I know the PDSITs are not the best choice, but I want to try them. I have a set of kads in the garage already, but just want to do something different. If I dont like the PDSITs, I'll probably just get a set of HPMX, IDF clones, or try the new D series.
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FreeBug
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:23 am    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

Pruneman99 wrote:
I'm still looking for flow numbers for the PDSIT carbs, but I doubt lifting the valve higher than .4 is going to provide any gains. I definitely don't want to be wrecking the lifter bores for unneeded lift.


Valve lift being more than the heads can use isn't just wasted: it means the valve spends more TIME at good flow lifts. It CAN be a good thing.

If you're happy with just 80 hp, the PDSITs are fine, they are harder (more time disassembling carbs to make changes) to tune than dual Webers or Dells, but plug access is better...

My 1745 was a KISS engine, wanted to see how far I could take a "stockish" engine, with carbs and points and single springs and a stock service interval., etc.. I left a lot of power on the parts shelf, in exchange for ease and comfort of driving and maintenance.
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

No time this morning for the bug. The wife ran over a sprinkler head and snapped it off underground. So I got to dig up the yard instead Crying or Very sad

Fast, reliable, cheap..

I'm picking reiable, and equal parts of the other two. Trying to spend money where it matters, and refurb some used OG parts to keep the costs down. There isn't a budget really, but If I'm going to spend 4k on an engine, I'd build a 2+L. Realistically, I want to be in the 2-2.5k mark, but that's not firm.

If I could get 80hp and 100lbs torque, that would be plenty for what I want this engine to do.
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atticus finch
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

Pruneman99 wrote:
To start, this is a 1745cc build. Not a 1776, 1915, 2110, or any other size you think I should build. If this really bugs you, too bad. I'm spending my money not yours. Laughing

Im building this engine for a open road cruiser. HP is nice, but not the goal per se. Its nice to drive some open hilly roads and not have to downsift as much. This is NOT going to be a high RPM engine. 5k max during normal driving. I don't care if it falls on it's face past that, and it probably will with the carbs I plan to run. It's an upright engine for my '64 project bug. Plan on driving it up the west coast from SoCal to Vancouver.

What I have on hand:

Used type III single relief case just back from the machine shop. 40 over on the mains, first thrust, decked, cam bore just needed touched. Probably would have been fine without, but had them measure and touch it up. All plugs pulled and threaded.

4340 76mm counterweighted crank
85.5 B stroker pistons AA (box said AA, but no marking on the pistons themselves so they might be from someone else but they look well made)
AA 5.5" stroker clearanced I beams. Not really sure if I'm keeping these, or going with something better. After I go through them I'll decide.

Stock heater boxes with a 1 3/8 header. Haven't decided on mufflers yet

Dual PDSIT 32's from a '66? Type III. Larger vents, re-jet.
Steel brazillia? tall intakes
Puma? air cleaners

German SVA distributor to match the carbs, as long as the displacement and vent change doesn't mess with the vacuum signal too much.

Round or square top German fuel pump. I have both, so whatever I feel like using.

Scat 36 hp style fan shroud, German dual port tin. (Still looking for sled tin)

Now, I'm deciding on heads and cam.

For cam I was thinking about a Web 86. Open to suggestions here. I have tons of 1.1 rockers and was not planning ratio rockers. With the tame lifts I don't think it's necessary.

Heads. Maybe some MOFOCO stockers or super stockers or Tim's stage I. Stock valves. I have a brand new set of China specials in the garage now that could be used if there wouldn't be much gain with others.

So what say you?


Enjoyed this thread so far, your engine is very close to what I've decided to build for my `70. I'd be using the specs in the aircooled.net engine article & using a PICT 30-1. No dual carbs for me.
I might do the 1800 (78mm stroke) instead of the 1745 but only if it'll hold stock width with 'B' cylinders. Otherwise I'll do the 1745.

I'll be using dual ports although I don't know about the mofoco heads, I was figuring stock heads would do fine.
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nsracing
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

I am w/ you man. I am building a 78mm x 88mm thickwalls for a cruiser. I would dare anyone w/ a 'big-block' Type I to keep up w/ this mild motor on a 3000-mile trek. Laughing

Durability is key in a cruiser engine. I am big-beliver in the stock cam. I don't have to worry on the lobes going flat when I am 3000 miles out to nowhere. No fuss. No muss. It is as simple as they come and lives a long happy life.

Dual Kadrons, mild Bus dual springs, mild exhausts, 009 dist, heavy flywheel. That is it.
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Alstrup
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

nsracing wrote:
I am w/ you man. I am building a 78mm x 88mm thickwalls for a cruiser. I would dare anyone w/ a 'big-block' Type I to keep up w/ this mild motor on a 3000-mile trek. Laughing

Durability is key in a cruiser engine. I am big-beliver in the stock cam. I don't have to worry on the lobes going flat when I am 3000 miles out to nowhere. No fuss. No muss. It is as simple as they come and lives a long happy life.

Dual Kadrons, mild Bus dual springs, mild exhausts, 009 dist, heavy flywheel. That is it.

If you want to do an engine like that, at least step up and improve your ignition. Even a simple rebuilt stock 205 svda along with modified Kads of course can do sooo much better.
A pity I´m on the other side of the globe, cause I would have loved to dare you Very Happy
Ohh well.
Danwvw wrote:
The CB-2280 is a single carb cam! Pretty much for a stock carb.


Yes, and no. A customer of mine just got his new engine dynoed last saturday. 1776, balanced, 2280 cam, stock heads w. 35,5 x 32 mm valves, 3 angle valve job, Scat HD springs, cut for 90,5 cylinders. That´s IT. 8,5 CR. German 009 w. Ignitor, NOS dual 36 Dellorto´s, and it all exits through a CSP Super comp exhaust. It pulls 84 hp Din. @ 4800 and 141 Nm max at about 3500 rpm. Completely home built by a novice that just asked the right questions.
A very nice and very usable engine.

T
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: 1745cc bulld Reply with quote

Well a set of IDFs landed on my doorstep yesterday so I'm thinking of ditching the PDSITs..

Hopefully I can start some mock up today Laughing

If I use the IDFs, what cam? Still the 2280? I'm not looking for huge lifts, I'm more concerned about being able to jump in the car and run it 500 miles at a time if I want.

So for a recap

Single relief case, line bored, decked, cam ream, thrust cut to +1, oil gallery plugs pulled
Full flow with filter, no external cooler unless needed
China 76mm counterweighted crank.
AA 85.5 "B" stroker pistons
AA 5.5 clearanced rods
MOFOCO 040 super street heads
Stock heater boxes with 1 3/8 merged exhaust
Scat 36 hp style fan shroud, later dog house cooler
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