1745cc bulld

[Brian_e]

I would still say the 2239. It makes good power, and with stock rockers, it lifts right at .420". That is right at the limit before a stock push rod tip binds. I am a big fan of cut down stock push rods on smaller engines like this. They are free, super good quality, light and quiet.

Brian

[Alstrup]

That or 1,25´s on the 2280. I am not so affraid of a little valve lift. Just make sure you use bolted shafts and decent adjusters (Porsche style)

[Brian_e]

I also like to use a little lift if it isn't a super low budget engine. If those heads are decent, they should keep flowing up to at least .500".

If your budget allows 1.4 rockers, and new push rods, an FK7 might might also work pretty good.

Brian

[Danwvw]

One thing to consider when choosing a cam for this engine is that it only has 85.5cc bore so it's not going to have as much ability to draw in as much air as a big bore engine. A higher lift cam will not make as much difference as it would on a 94mm bore. So depending on how you want it to be at lower rpm 2280 would be good and 2239 better HP at 3600 rpm but would have a little bit of difficulty getting it to idle just right and make that transition between idle and when you start to give it gas. A Webcam 118 or something even better, only the 118 with IDF's would probably kick the HP up a little 10 HP maybe 15 HP or so above 4500. You would be able to run a higher compression with the Webcam than the others.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Pruneman99]

Actually I was just looking at the webcam 118 last night and was going to ask about it

I wouldn't mind having a bit more top end for passing, but I don't want to sacrifice idle and low rpm. It's easy to start going down the bigger is better rabbit hole. It's easy to lose sight of what I want here.

Above all else, I want a cruiser engine that will tick along all day on the interstate, but be mild mannered in traffic and street driving.

High RPM HP is definitely secondary.

[Danwvw]

Yeah, with the IDF's the Webcam 118 would IDLE like stock. It's a lower lift cam but mine had as much advance on it as the Webcam 163 for some reason. With a stock exhaust or 1-3/8" or 1-1/2" headers, a small valve engine like this will pull nice down low if you get the IDF's jetted right. It's a little easier to do with the Dellorto 36's because they have 5 Idle progression holes instead of 3. I have Scat 1.25 Ratio rockers on my Webcam 118 so the lift is up above .450" that way. It is the strongest running engine of the 3 I have below.
Just depends on if you want to spend a little extra on the valve train, Light weight lifters, Aluminum Heavy Duty Pushrods. Single HD valve Springs,. I used these SS Racing PushRod Tubes so I could run the el-chepo Scat 1.25 ratio rockers, They have the extra room the push rods need with those ratio rockers. You will also need Solid Rocker Shaft's and Swival Feet ball adjusters would be nice, probably need the Elephant Feet as they would be best for the 1.25 ratio scat rockers that don't meet up with the valve very well.
Now! there still is a problem with doing all this and that is your Single Relief Case is going to need a little better oiling. I would just run a 26mm Filter Pump and use lightweight oil so you get plenty of oil to the valve train.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Pruneman99]

I was thinking of just using 1.1 rockers with the webcam 118. I could always go 1.25 if I feel it's choking it too much.

Definitely a yes for bolt on shafts.

The MOFOCO 040 super streets I ordered come with HD singles already, so that's covered.

I've never used a fliter-pump but I like the concept where you don't have to run lines. Will it fit with the el-cheapo 1 3/8 header?

Undecided on adjusters. Whatever works I guess

Lightweight lifters are going in. Whatever brand to match the cam. So scat with the webcam I think is what is recommend.

Lightweight oil for sure. I don't buy into the 20-50 thing at all. Just heavy enough to keep oil pressure at idle. I've been running 10-30 in my stocker with no heat or low pressure issues. If the engine is tight enough, I have no issues running 5w.

[Brian_e]

I think for this small of displacement, and you not wanting too high revving engine, I would stick to around 240deg. at .050".

For daily driving you need as much torque down low as possible, and then you need to retain the torque to make for a wide usable power-band. To much duration with not enough airspeed is a bad combo, makes for a soggy bottom end, and poor throttle response.

CB2239, great all around power
web 218, the ultimate small engine torque cam.
or fk7, little more top end power, easy on valve train.

Brian

[Danwvw]

Yeah, the filter pump is good with the 4 into one headers. One of the merged doesn't work with it though. The thing to stay on guard for when using a filter pump with a single oil relief engine is that the small dia pick-up tube with that big oil pump! If you rev the engine cold and if the oil is thick the oiling pressure fails with them that's why the light oil with them. Also, make sure the holes line up on the case to the filter pump and that you get the early filter pump for the single relief case.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Pruneman99]

Huh I was unaware that there were different ports for the oil pump on a single relief case. Never heard about that. Are the in/out ports clocked differently?

[Brian_e]

I wouldn't bother with a filter pump. The few positives are really outweighed by the negatives. Just get a regular shadek 26mm and a cast steel cover. No need for a giant pump with tiny internal passages, tiny filter mounted 3/4" from the header tubes, or the lack of flexibility.

With a real full flow setup you can mount the filter away from the header, and if you need to add an oil cooler later it will be no problem. There are also a few different options for bypass setups to dial in your oil pressure if you need to.

If you have to run one, make sure it's the good CB one. I think theirs has a smaller pump and decent quality. I ran a cheap one on a small engine and it caused nothing but problem.

Brian

[Pruneman99]

Truth be told, I was planning on running a 21mm pump that had been ported and plugged for FF. I'd go 26mm FF or filter pump if that's what I should do though. I'd have to check but I'm almost positive that's what I'm running now and never have oil pressure problems. Even when I ran it flat out from SoCal to Phoenix through the desert. Only issue on that trip was a worn points block. Forgot to lube it for a long, long time.

That reminds me, its been a few years since I've checked my valve lash too.. Who says these engines need constant attention?

[Brian_e]

If you have a good 21mm that will work with a 3 bolt cam, I would run that and see how it does.

Brian

[TheViking]

Oil pressure problems is often caused by to big vlearence between the pump and cover. Sometimes you need 2 gaskets, sometimes none, and slmetimes you need to grinde the gears or pump down to get the specs you want. It should be no more than 0.05mm clearence i think. Less is better, especiqlly if you have 21mm pump.

I had problems with the oil pressure light lighting up when the engine was properly hot. I have now removed the gasket after checking vlearences and looking forward to see if it fixes the problem

[Pruneman99]

So I decided on the CB 2239 cam and some ultralight lifters to match. I think this cam will do what I want it to.

Started some light mock up. Since the case wasn't bored for larger cylinders, the new 85.5 ones were a bit tight. I spent like 2 hours "lapping" them into the case with light oil until they spun freely and sit tight to the deck.

I forgot to get bearing dowels so I haven't mocked up the crank or measured crush yet. Hopefully I'll get to do that this weekend. My order with the bearing dowels should be here tomorrow.

[Frank Bassman]

I don't understand the negative comments about the filterpumps. I also don't really understand the need for added work for a "real" full flow setup on a mild motor such as this one will be. I have found CB's 26 mm maxi 2 to be excellent. Even though I haven't done it on mine, I understand that "porting" the bends in the passages of those pumps really helps the flow potential.

Don't see where a filterpump has disadvantages in this setup.

I have above 40k miles on my 1699 and neither oil pressure nor hot running have ever been an issue in Miami.

-Frank

[Pruneman99]

I'm still considering a filter-pump. My case has had the gallery plugs pulled and tapped, so I could go full flow or filter-pump. I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

[Pruneman99]

Started mocking up the short block, but I didn't get far. The cam would pinch when the case was torqued down, even to 10lbs. The Silverline cam bearings are crap. The thrust bearings are kinda twisted or something. After seating them, the cam was still tight and there are witness marks on the running edge of the bearings indicating a high spot. Both the thrust brearings rub the cam in a different spot. I can switch them from side to side because my case was altered to accept the tang in both sides. The thrust shows witness marks unevenly as well. The other bearings are perfect, just the thrust ones seem to suck.

Anyone else have this issue with silverline cam bearings? Are the Clevite or Malhe any better?

[Brian_e]

Same problem all Silverline cam bearings have. You seated them back and forth with a big drift and hammer? You can flat sand the thrust surface on some 600 wet dry with a shot of WD40 till they have clearance.

Sometimes the chamfer on the case isn't quite enough to fit the inside radius on the thrust bearing. It wont let the bearing seat all the way down into the saddle. Quick easy fix with a small file if that is the problem.

You can try flipping them side to side, but I am guessing it wont help too much.

Mahle double thrust are the best this season.

Brian

[Pruneman99]

I sat them with a drift and large rubber mallet. They rub on the inside edge. The chamfer is probably the problem. When I switched them side to side they rubbed on opposite edges. My cam tunnel was cleaned up at the machine shop. It may have left a sharp edge on the saddle. I'll check that, thanks Brian. I'll probably just order some Mahle bearings too.