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tlake Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2018 Posts: 27 Location: WA
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:49 am Post subject: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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I was looking at the 5 car economy test R&T did and the Pinto and Super Beetle seemed well matched with 1600 cc engines and 4 speeds. They both got 21.1 second 1/4 mile times, and around 80 mph, but the Super Beetle was 6 mpg better on fuel economy. That seems like a remarkable advantage in efficiency to deliver the same performance with a huge gas mileage advantage. |
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mukluk Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012 Posts: 6985 Location: Clyde, TX
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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And yet folks went out of their way to develop an intake to mount the Pinto's carburetor on a VW, so they too could get worse fuel mileage. _________________ 1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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tlake Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2018 Posts: 27 Location: WA
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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mukluk wrote: |
And yet folks went out of their way to develop an intake to mount the Pinto's carburetor on a VW, so they too could get worse fuel mileage. |
Both cars had 4 wheel drums, although the VW outperformed many cars with front discs. You could get all the above good points from the normal $1,815 Beetle that undercut the Pinto by $125.
The other point is that the 1.6 liter Pinto was unavailable with an automatic or a/c. You could get both on the VW Beetle, and the VW's $267 a/c was quite a lot cheaper than any of the opposition offered. Ok, it wasn't as effective as the Pinto or Vega's factory a/c, but it was still better than driving a base Pinto with no a/c in the desert.
It makes you wonder why buyers were switching to Vega and Pinto in the early '70s? Especially with the very bad quality of the domestics, and their shorter warranty. |
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Buggeee Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016 Posts: 4391 Location: Stuck in Ohio
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BIGMIKEY Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007 Posts: 1102 Location: North East Pennsylvania
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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The group that I hung around with in High School thought highly of the Sedan Delivery. Chevys, Fords, Mopars whatever they were all cool. When Chevy came out with the Vega in 1970 I zeroed in on the Panel. I resolved to get one. In late 1971 I went to the local Chevy dealer to discuss buying one. When I heard you couldn't get the GT package like you could with the Hatchback and wagon I was disappointed. I eventually realized that I couldn't afford one anyway. So I stuck with VW's.
Mike T _________________ BIGMIKEY
Deserter Series 1 project.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=787047&highlight=
1973 Beetle Driver, Marina Blue.
Last edited by BIGMIKEY on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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hitest Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008 Posts: 10296 Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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Notice how quickly those two vehicles were replaced by better rebadged import cars just to compete "globally." Mitsubishi saved Dodge, Kia and Mazda saved Ford, Isuzu Chevy... _________________
EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7599
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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tlake wrote: |
It makes you wonder why buyers were switching to Vega and Pinto in the early '70s? Especially with the very bad quality of the domestics, and their shorter warranty. |
USA USA USA
Makes me wonder why people weren’t switching to Corollas and Civics in the 70s past the west coast.
We helped develop some of most reliable cars after we destroyed those places _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7599
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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And I will add. I’m a bit bitter. My wife’s 1 year old BMW was towed today. Thank god I leased it. I dork on 40 year old German cars for fun. My 10 year old Subaru runs tough. Never left me hanging. _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10399 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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tlake wrote: |
I was looking at the 5 car economy test R&T did and the Pinto and Super Beetle seemed well matched with 1600 cc engines and 4 speeds. They both got 21.1 second 1/4 mile times, and around 80 mph, but the Super Beetle was 6 mpg better on fuel economy. That seems like a remarkable advantage in efficiency to deliver the same performance with a huge gas mileage advantage. |
What were the other 3 cars tested, and where did each come out in the contest?
I get the feeling the SB scored last or next to last, since you only compared it to the Pinto-- even with all its "advantages." _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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tlake Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2018 Posts: 27 Location: WA
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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sb001 wrote: |
tlake wrote: |
I was looking at the 5 car economy test R&T did and the Pinto and Super Beetle seemed well matched with 1600 cc engines and 4 speeds. They both got 21.1 second 1/4 mile times, and around 80 mph, but the Super Beetle was 6 mpg better on fuel economy. That seems like a remarkable advantage in efficiency to deliver the same performance with a huge gas mileage advantage. |
What were the other 3 cars tested, and where did each come out in the contest?
I get the feeling the SB scored last or next to last, since you only compared it to the Pinto-- even with all its "advantages." |
I chose the Pinto as a natural car to compare because it was also a 1.6 liter car, and new for 1971. The only other 1600cc car on test was the Datsun 510, its famously zippy motor made the car much faster, but its economy was 3 mpg worse. The other 2 cars were the Vega & Toyota Corona, both with much larger engines.
Toyota 1st, Datsun 2nd, Vega 3rd, Pinto 4th & SB 5th. However, not even the Japanese could do better than a 12/12 warranty and the SB had the lowest rpm at 70 mph (3,500 rpm). Interestingly the revised 1977 Gremlin brought back the 24/24 warranty, and I don't think any other car had such a warranty by then. |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10399 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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tlake wrote: |
sb001 wrote: |
tlake wrote: |
I was looking at the 5 car economy test R&T did and the Pinto and Super Beetle seemed well matched with 1600 cc engines and 4 speeds. They both got 21.1 second 1/4 mile times, and around 80 mph, but the Super Beetle was 6 mpg better on fuel economy. That seems like a remarkable advantage in efficiency to deliver the same performance with a huge gas mileage advantage. |
What were the other 3 cars tested, and where did each come out in the contest?
I get the feeling the SB scored last or next to last, since you only compared it to the Pinto-- even with all its "advantages." |
I chose the Pinto as a natural car to compare because it was also a 1.6 liter car, and new for 1971. The only other 1600cc car on test was the Datsun 510, its famously zippy motor made the car much faster, but its economy was 3 mpg worse. The other 2 cars were the Vega & Toyota Corona, both with much larger engines.
Toyota 1st, Datsun 2nd, Vega 3rd, Pinto 4th & SB 5th. However, not even the Japanese could do better than a 12/12 warranty and the SB had the lowest rpm at 70 mph (3,500 rpm). Interestingly the revised 1977 Gremlin brought back the 24/24 warranty, and I don't think any other car had such a warranty by then. |
Gimme that Datsun 510 any damn day of the year. My grandparents had a 510 hatchback and that sucker was a blast to drive- and handled exceptionally well in bad/ winter weather, I dare say better than the bug. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Max Welton Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003 Posts: 10697 Location: Black Forest, CO
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theKbStockpiler Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Rust Belt
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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As Bob Hoover states the ACVW needs more infrastructure to maintain as in a engine re-manufacturer ,etcetera. _________________ My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13385 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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Chevy Vega.. Yikes! I shuttered when I read "Vega". What a royal POS that thing was. Blown head gaskets, front frame head, crossmember rust outs, it has to go down as one of the cheapest, poorly made cars from the 70's that Detroit put out.
Well, at least it didn't blow up when rear ended, did it? _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7599
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:38 pm Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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wcfvw69 wrote: |
Chevy Vega.. Yikes! I shuttered when I read "Vega". What a royal POS that thing was. Blown head gaskets, front frame head, crossmember rust outs, it has to go down as one of the cheapest, poorly made cars from the 70's that Detroit put out.
Well, at least it didn't blow up when rear ended, did it? |
Ford Maverick. Ford’s “Import Fighter”. Another pile of crap. _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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tlake Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2018 Posts: 27 Location: WA
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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wcfvw69 wrote: |
Well, at least it didn't blow up when rear ended, did it? |
I was just waiting for someone to say that, lol |
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AlmostHeavenWV_VW Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2017 Posts: 1965 Location: WV
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Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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wcfvw69 wrote: |
Chevy Vega.. Yikes! I shuttered when I read "Vega". What a royal POS that thing was. Blown head gaskets, front frame head, crossmember rust outs, it has to go down as one of the cheapest, poorly made cars from the 70's that Detroit put out.
Well, at least it didn't blow up when rear ended, did it? |
I believe the Vega was the car which had the maintenance schedule of:
Fill up oil.
Check fuel level. _________________ 1973 Standard Beetle
1600DP AK case
Solex 34PICT3 Carb
Bosch DVDA 205AJ Distributor |
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NevadaVandal Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2016 Posts: 123
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Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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Bought the 72 Vega GT. Had to change the valve cover gasket for a neoprene gasket I fabricated because of pooling oil at the edge on the valve cover. Worked on the carb and heliarced the tranny for a crack I caused. Traded it off at 92,000+ miles. Must have had the only good Vega. Girl friend had the Pinto and never could tune up to run smooth. She traded for a 74VW then it went for a 76 Dodge W100. Got the current 74 SB from the original owner in 1982. |
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joey1320 Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2006 Posts: 2325 Location: Cleveland, OH
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Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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Xevin wrote: |
And I will add. I’m a bit bitter. My wife’s 1 year old BMW was towed today. Thank god I leased it. I dork on 40 year old German cars for fun. My 10 year old Subaru runs tough. Never left me hanging. |
Sorry but as a BMW shop foreman I can tell you the quality of these cars has gone to the shithole since 1999. Never would I own one (unless pre'99), even knowing how to fix them. _________________ **1971 Super Project
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10399 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures |
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joey1320 wrote: |
Sorry but as a BMW shop foreman I can tell you the quality of these cars has gone to the shithole since 1999. Never would I own one (unless pre'99), even knowing how to fix them. |
Sister had a 2005 325i, gave her nothing but fits. Left her stranded at least twice due to dead battery, what's up with that ridiculous charging system in those things?? _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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