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Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures
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tlake
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:49 am    Post subject: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

I was looking at the 5 car economy test R&T did and the Pinto and Super Beetle seemed well matched with 1600 cc engines and 4 speeds. They both got 21.1 second 1/4 mile times, and around 80 mph, but the Super Beetle was 6 mpg better on fuel economy. That seems like a remarkable advantage in efficiency to deliver the same performance with a huge gas mileage advantage. Cool
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

And yet folks went out of their way to develop an intake to mount the Pinto's carburetor on a VW, so they too could get worse fuel mileage.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

mukluk wrote:
And yet folks went out of their way to develop an intake to mount the Pinto's carburetor on a VW, so they too could get worse fuel mileage.


Both cars had 4 wheel drums, although the VW outperformed many cars with front discs. You could get all the above good points from the normal $1,815 Beetle that undercut the Pinto by $125.

The other point is that the 1.6 liter Pinto was unavailable with an automatic or a/c. You could get both on the VW Beetle, and the VW's $267 a/c was quite a lot cheaper than any of the opposition offered. Ok, it wasn't as effective as the Pinto or Vega's factory a/c, but it was still better than driving a base Pinto with no a/c in the desert. Smile

It makes you wonder why buyers were switching to Vega and Pinto in the early '70s? Especially with the very bad quality of the domestics, and their shorter warranty. Cool
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

[quote="tlake"]
mukluk wrote:

It makes you wonder why buyers were switching to Vega and Pinto in the early '70s? Especially with the very bad quality of the domestics, and their shorter warranty. Cool


Body "style". lol
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

The group that I hung around with in High School thought highly of the Sedan Delivery. Chevys, Fords, Mopars whatever they were all cool. When Chevy came out with the Vega in 1970 I zeroed in on the Panel. I resolved to get one. In late 1971 I went to the local Chevy dealer to discuss buying one. When I heard you couldn't get the GT package like you could with the Hatchback and wagon I was disappointed. I eventually realized that I couldn't afford one anyway. So I stuck with VW's.


Mike T
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

Notice how quickly those two vehicles were replaced by better rebadged import cars just to compete "globally." Mitsubishi saved Dodge, Kia and Mazda saved Ford, Isuzu Chevy...
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

tlake wrote:

It makes you wonder why buyers were switching to Vega and Pinto in the early '70s? Especially with the very bad quality of the domestics, and their shorter warranty. Cool


USA USA USA Confused

Makes me wonder why people weren’t switching to Corollas and Civics in the 70s past the west coast.

We helped develop some of most reliable cars after we destroyed those places Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

And I will add. I’m a bit bitter. My wife’s 1 year old BMW was towed today. Thank god I leased it. I dork on 40 year old German cars for fun. My 10 year old Subaru runs tough. Never left me hanging. Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:07 am    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

tlake wrote:
I was looking at the 5 car economy test R&T did and the Pinto and Super Beetle seemed well matched with 1600 cc engines and 4 speeds. They both got 21.1 second 1/4 mile times, and around 80 mph, but the Super Beetle was 6 mpg better on fuel economy. That seems like a remarkable advantage in efficiency to deliver the same performance with a huge gas mileage advantage. Cool


What were the other 3 cars tested, and where did each come out in the contest?

I get the feeling the SB scored last or next to last, since you only compared it to the Pinto-- even with all its "advantages." Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

sb001 wrote:
tlake wrote:
I was looking at the 5 car economy test R&T did and the Pinto and Super Beetle seemed well matched with 1600 cc engines and 4 speeds. They both got 21.1 second 1/4 mile times, and around 80 mph, but the Super Beetle was 6 mpg better on fuel economy. That seems like a remarkable advantage in efficiency to deliver the same performance with a huge gas mileage advantage. Cool


What were the other 3 cars tested, and where did each come out in the contest?

I get the feeling the SB scored last or next to last, since you only compared it to the Pinto-- even with all its "advantages." Rolling Eyes


I chose the Pinto as a natural car to compare because it was also a 1.6 liter car, and new for 1971. The only other 1600cc car on test was the Datsun 510, its famously zippy motor made the car much faster, but its economy was 3 mpg worse. The other 2 cars were the Vega & Toyota Corona, both with much larger engines.

Toyota 1st, Datsun 2nd, Vega 3rd, Pinto 4th & SB 5th. However, not even the Japanese could do better than a 12/12 warranty and the SB had the lowest rpm at 70 mph (3,500 rpm). Interestingly the revised 1977 Gremlin brought back the 24/24 warranty, and I don't think any other car had such a warranty by then.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

tlake wrote:
sb001 wrote:
tlake wrote:
I was looking at the 5 car economy test R&T did and the Pinto and Super Beetle seemed well matched with 1600 cc engines and 4 speeds. They both got 21.1 second 1/4 mile times, and around 80 mph, but the Super Beetle was 6 mpg better on fuel economy. That seems like a remarkable advantage in efficiency to deliver the same performance with a huge gas mileage advantage. Cool


What were the other 3 cars tested, and where did each come out in the contest?

I get the feeling the SB scored last or next to last, since you only compared it to the Pinto-- even with all its "advantages." Rolling Eyes


I chose the Pinto as a natural car to compare because it was also a 1.6 liter car, and new for 1971. The only other 1600cc car on test was the Datsun 510, its famously zippy motor made the car much faster, but its economy was 3 mpg worse. The other 2 cars were the Vega & Toyota Corona, both with much larger engines.

Toyota 1st, Datsun 2nd, Vega 3rd, Pinto 4th & SB 5th. However, not even the Japanese could do better than a 12/12 warranty and the SB had the lowest rpm at 70 mph (3,500 rpm). Interestingly the revised 1977 Gremlin brought back the 24/24 warranty, and I don't think any other car had such a warranty by then.


Gimme that Datsun 510 any damn day of the year. My grandparents had a 510 hatchback and that sucker was a blast to drive- and handled exceptionally well in bad/ winter weather, I dare say better than the bug.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

My first car was a 1968 Datsun 510. Loved it!

Max
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

As Bob Hoover states the ACVW needs more infrastructure to maintain as in a engine re-manufacturer ,etcetera.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

Chevy Vega.. Yikes! I shuttered when I read "Vega". What a royal POS that thing was. Blown head gaskets, front frame head, crossmember rust outs, it has to go down as one of the cheapest, poorly made cars from the 70's that Detroit put out.

Well, at least it didn't blow up when rear ended, did it? Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
Chevy Vega.. Yikes! I shuttered when I read "Vega". What a royal POS that thing was. Blown head gaskets, front frame head, crossmember rust outs, it has to go down as one of the cheapest, poorly made cars from the 70's that Detroit put out.

Well, at least it didn't blow up when rear ended, did it? Laughing


Laughing Applause Applause Ford Maverick. Ford’s “Import Fighter”. Another pile of crap.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
Well, at least it didn't blow up when rear ended, did it? Laughing


I was just waiting for someone to say that, lol Exclamation Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
Chevy Vega.. Yikes! I shuttered when I read "Vega". What a royal POS that thing was. Blown head gaskets, front frame head, crossmember rust outs, it has to go down as one of the cheapest, poorly made cars from the 70's that Detroit put out.

Well, at least it didn't blow up when rear ended, did it? Laughing


I believe the Vega was the car which had the maintenance schedule of:

Fill up oil.
Check fuel level. Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

Bought the 72 Vega GT. Had to change the valve cover gasket for a neoprene gasket I fabricated because of pooling oil at the edge on the valve cover. Worked on the carb and heliarced the tranny for a crack I caused. Traded it off at 92,000+ miles. Must have had the only good Vega. Girl friend had the Pinto and never could tune up to run smooth. She traded for a 74VW then it went for a 76 Dodge W100. Got the current 74 SB from the original owner in 1982.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

Xevin wrote:
And I will add. I’m a bit bitter. My wife’s 1 year old BMW was towed today. Thank god I leased it. I dork on 40 year old German cars for fun. My 10 year old Subaru runs tough. Never left me hanging. Twisted Evil


Sorry but as a BMW shop foreman I can tell you the quality of these cars has gone to the shithole since 1999. Never would I own one (unless pre'99), even knowing how to fix them.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:16 am    Post subject: Re: Road & Track's Pinto Vs Super Beetle 1971 figures Reply with quote

joey1320 wrote:
Sorry but as a BMW shop foreman I can tell you the quality of these cars has gone to the shithole since 1999. Never would I own one (unless pre'99), even knowing how to fix them.


Sister had a 2005 325i, gave her nothing but fits. Left her stranded at least twice due to dead battery, what's up with that ridiculous charging system in those things??
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