Deep sump or?

craigman · Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:22 am Post subject: Deep sump or?

Fellas,
i've always had street bugs, never any bajas. So with that being said, are any of you using a thin sump on your engines for those long hill climbs?
A buddy of mine has a Manx and had to switch over to a dry sump system for those long sand dune hills climbs. It was expensive and a lot of extra plumbing.
Just wondering as i am starting my first baja build.
Thanks for an info!
Craig

Brian · Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

What's really expensive is tearing off the bottom of your engine with a low hanging sump. Even if it fits over the skid plate then it probably isn't helping much with case cooling. You get a lot of cooling from the bottom of the case when you're moving.
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Mal evolent · Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

in central NM the gravel on a gravel road is the size of a Rubiks cube. we run steel skid plates and we do not put cast aluminum containing oil closer to the ground
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craigman · Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

My car will lifted and also will have a skid plate. I was just thinking of extra insurance being that a baja will see steep hills, off camber turns, ect. Especially with such little oil they carry.

Brian · Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

oldschool5er · Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

What Brian and Mal have said are correct. We don't use deep sumps in off road use as it is more of a detriment then benefit even if you are lifted and fully skid plated. If it's life is just going to be sand dunes well maybe then you just need to worry about bottoming out on a jump. I have used the mini super sucker pickups before that only add another 3/4" to the bottom but replace just the stock plate. I still use windage trays and tubes in my engines I build. Every once in a while I get a customer that has a spare Berg or other deep sump lying around that they are bound and determined to use but I politely ask that they don't use it until after my work is out of warranty and here is why. There have been more than a few instances of rocks bashing holes in engine cases and deep sumps even when fully skidded. A class 11 just had this happen in the last few years when a rock squeezed through a really small space behind the axles past the skid to end their race even without a sump. With a sump hanging down it just affords a bigger target and extra thing to leak. I myself have experianced the exact same thing in my own car and cost me a race. People say well I am not going to race it, but the trail doesn't care as it can happen at anytime you are on dirt no matter how fast you are going.
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craigman · Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

Oh I agree with what you guys are saying, hence the reason for the post. I was wondering what people are doing. Never thought of using a windage tray. Are you guys making them? Don't think I've ever seen pics of one.

oldschool5er · Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=732507

This is typical of whats out there. They make one that bolts to the sump plate stud which I try to look for because they don't touch the case as much. After being in a case for years the slip in type start vibrating around and wear into the case a little bit, I still use slip in but mod them so they work a little better.
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Brian · Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

I still like the idea of welding a plate onto the oil sump pickup tube.
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'68 Camper

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craigman · Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

oldschool5er · Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

dirtkeeper · Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

I have a full flow oil system with a filter and cooler, a common addition to any Baja , and feel that adds a lot of capacity to the system and should help- with oil starvation in any situation.

earthquake · Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

Put a Accusump in it!

http://www.accusump.com/

Casey
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dustymojave · Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

Deep sumps on offroad cars are against my religion.

57 Baja, owner of KaddyShack and co-founder of SoCal Bajas, had a deep sump on his Baja. He snagged the extra deep bumper cage and skidplate on a rock in Last Chance Canyon on one SoCal Bajas outing. He would have cleared the rock without the deep sump. But he got stopped right there. Took a few of us to get his car off the rock.

Ain't the only time I've seen trouble of the sort. I've had friends who've smashed their deep sump on a landing at the dunes. Almost NEVER see one on an offroad race car. For good reasons.

Both of my cars have windage trays. Also I add more oil with the full flow system to compensate for the greater capacity.
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Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

B Ramsey · Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

I run them on all my buggies. always have.
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Donald Mace · Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

Have used one on my baja for 9 years. Been to mexico and all over and have never hit it. Baja is raised pretty good but i have a tube and 1/2 on the lower rail with a full skid pan + full flow, big filter, and cooler. More oil the better.

dustymojave · Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:54 pm Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

So to each his own way. Cool

Some prefer it. Some do NOT. Take your pick.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

YDBD · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:48 am Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

Many tried and true answers in this book:

B Ramsey · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?

i bought that book in the early 90's at Sav-A-Bug. Still have it, still refer to it from time to time.
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Go outside and do something.

dustymojave · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Deep sump or?


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