Split beetle accessory brake light and flasher wiring challenge

[nlorntson]

I'm working on a friends 52 split window project. He previously had a very unique neon rear brake light that operated in concert with the usual popes nose brake light.

He wants to convert the neon lights to also flash as independent turn signals.

The pieces of the system I currently have are two separate pieces of neon glass (that light up red), a 6V to 12V inverter, and a 12V power supply for neon signs.

Currently this setup will light up both neon tubes when the car brakes are applied.

What I want to do is continue to have both light up with the brake pedal, but change it so the left lights up with the left turn and the right with the right turn. Semaphores will only raise and light up, no flashing.

Ideally the neon brake light will be on continuously on one side and flash on the other when turning, and both will light up when only braking.

I'm wondering if anyone can help me with the proper wiring and power supply(s) I will need to get this working?

Here's how the original setup worked

Here's all the components I believe will be involved in making the changes.

[consvws]

can you use a later 6 wire turn signal switch? Assuming you are using a 3-wire switch now.

[nlorntson]

[busdaddy]

Sounds to me like a job for a separate signal to combined brake/signal trailer light converter box and 2 flashers, one in each sides circuit leading to the box.
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[Splitdog]

*Edited
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[caleb0101]

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[nlorntson]

Thanks caleb0101

One thing I forgot is the semaphore indicator. Where would that be wired?

And would your drawing result in flashing semaphores or normal operation?

I need them to operate normally (no flasing).

[caleb0101]

[ZENVWDRIVER]

I acquired this 1950 standard on a 1972 pan, titled as a '72 in 1978... the state of NJ made me install functioning signals and EMERGENCY FLASHERS. I went to a NAPA store, bought that whole kit, for an old hot rod upgrade... installed snow flakes and used the front parking lights too...
I left the switch in the dash center for the semaphores and added a stalk switch on the column... was real easy to do.
Later, I bought a 1950 title and removed all that modern BS and ran just semaphores... do the same today, in 2018 with my early oval... just semaphores.

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[nlorntson]

Thanks zen

The friend wants to stay stock so nothing on the steering column.

I've collected most of the parts I think I need and hope to prototype it all this weekend.

First though, I need to get a malfunctioning turnsignal sorted out in my SO44.

Did I mention how much I don't enjoy electrical problems? Wish me luck.

[0nebadbug]

Wow! ... Is this so the ISS will be able to tell when the brakes are applied?

j/k ... kinda neat actually.

I suppose I shouldn't laugh... As I've actually thought about making a set of LED tubes to fit behind the 3 longest steel vent lines on either end of my ovals rear vents.
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[EVfun]

I used to do neon work, so I love this!

A good basic setup was presented already by Calab. I'd only add that each flasher may need its own load relay to make it flash and/or the the converter box function (some of those trailer boxes need to "see" bulbs on the flasher to work.)

Also, is the Bug going to be 6v or 12v? I don't know if any of the trailer converters will work on a 6v. It wouldn't be hard to hand roll a system on a solderable breadboard that would take the inputs (power, signal L, signal R, brake) and roll them into 2 relay outputs to drive the 2 neon power supplies.

You will need 2 neon power supplies as shown, the high voltage that drives a neon tube makes normal transistor or relay switching impossible on the output side There are old-school parts that could do that but they are large and use considerable switching power.
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[nlorntson]

EVfun...

Car will be 6V

Trailer flasher - I have one on my 62 beetle (also 6v) for my single wheel trailer lighting so it seems to work just fine there.

Neon power supply- yes, two power supplies so the neon can run independently. Each will take the 12v DC and con vert to 5000V AC

6V DC to 12V DC step up to power the neon PS - I'm leaning towards two of these also. I'm not sure what Amp output I'll need if I go with one versus two.

Any ideas?

[Peter_N]

That's one very cool idea!
Pretty cool actually that the light units are arrow shaped like the split window.
It cannot get more clear than this for the person behind you.

Any picture from the rear already? What color are the tubes when not switched on?
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[Grant Reiling]

[nlorntson]

I THINK we have the electrical portion of this project sorted out. I hope to do a mock up of the system in the next days.

Now, what suggestions does anyone have for attaching the neon to the car?

As you can see in the picture above, the neon is slightly smaller than the opening.

The previous installation tried using double stick tape, little plastic wiring clips, and zip ties. You can see some if it still attached to the neon tubes.

This worked for a while, but the heat and vibration caused the clips to become unstuck from the glass and it really didn't look very nice.

The neon cannot be glued directly to the glass because of the high voltage.

So what ideas are out there for holding the neon tubes? It will be another few days before the car leaves for the paint shop.

Thanks all!

[busdaddy]

Custom bent clips that look like a question mark without the dot that tuck in between the glass and rubber seal?
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

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[caleb0101]

if you can post up some dimensions and better pictures of the neon tubes i might be able to design something for you
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Ruby red 1967 beetle sedan with a 2021cc
1967 beetle sedan baja project
April 60 euro spec ragtop beetle with a 1641cc

[nlorntson]

I'm not sure what the dimensions you need might be. The neon tube is 8mm diameter.

You can see where the seal sits on the glass.

[ZENVWDRIVER]