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crankbait09 Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016 Posts: 1304 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 3:02 pm Post subject: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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After recently having the drums machined, shoes replaced, and brakes bled and adjusted..............all was rolling/stopping well. Till tonight.
Decided to take it for a stroll (bad idea). Thought I could take it on the back roads to get in some driving time. Well, didn't think about the time and everyone trying to get home after work. So as you can imagine I had to do a lot of braking, stop and go, from light to light. Engine was getting hot, I could smell it from time to time. Once I got going, it was fine again, and smell was gone.
Last weekend, the brakes were fine and stopped. There were no signs of pulling one side to another when applying the brakes. Tonight, I started off fine. About half way through the ride it started pulling badly to the right front side. I started heading back for home, but I was still a good ways away. But pointless story short, the brakes pulled really hard to the right. Got it in to the garage and put my hand on each hubcap to see if there was any heat. I could feel luke warm heat on all three wheels (all were similar), except the right front. That was hot AF! I pulled off the hub cap with a screw driver, and the drum was even hotter. obviously.
I'm assuming this means that the brakes need adjusted on that side, After I drove it last weekend after doing the brake job, I got home and adjusted the brakes so that all were identical. So I figured I was done. Guess not
Is it safe to assume this right front brake just needs to be adjusted? Any reason to think the bearings are bad? Or axle nut may be too tight? _________________ 1963 Ragtop |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31378 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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crankbait09 wrote: |
Is it safe to assume this right front brake just needs to be adjusted? Any reason to think the bearings are bad? Or axle nut may be too tight? |
You'll need to pull both front drums and take a look. Could be bad adjustment, broken spring, bad flexible brake line at front right, bearings, anything almost. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12856 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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If you install the adjuster incorrectly, this will cause binding, dragging, & overheating. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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crankbait09 Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016 Posts: 1304 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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I'll definitely taking the front apart this weekend.
When you say "adjuster", you are referring to the star mechanism, right?
How the hell do you install that incorrectly? It only goes in one way, no? _________________ 1963 Ragtop |
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HippyTom Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2013 Posts: 676 Location: Florida, West Pasco
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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Maybe a brake cylinder hanging up when it gets hot? Take it out, apart, and grease the internals of it with brake grease and see how it does. |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5481 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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The adjusters have angled slots (some years) and you might be able to inatall them wrong, but I'm not sure you could install the drum if you made that mistake.
If all looks good then I would suspect a sticking wheel cylinder or failing flex hose to that front wheel (they can fail by acting like a one way valve that won't let fluid return.) _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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crankbait09 Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016 Posts: 1304 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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I did not replace the front wheel cylinders or front brake lines. All was dry so I left alone.
I'll check the brakes, then go from there. I'll check everything Saturday _________________ 1963 Ragtop |
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Sharp64 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 5304 Location: Central Florida
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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One way to determine if it’s a brake line is to jack the car up and see if the wheel spins after taking it for a drive. If it’s hard to spin, leave it and come back in an hour. See if it now spins. If it does, you most likely have a bad line. What happens is the lines collapse internally. The MCpushes the fluid through and the shoes engage. The line collapses and keeps the pressure from relieving. Letting it sit, it slowly leaks back and releives the pressure, disengaging the shoes. Been there.
Front spindle nuts could also be too tight, but shouldn’t cause pulling. _________________ 1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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[quote="Sharp64"]One way to determine if it’s a brake line is to jack the car up and see if the wheel spins after taking it for a drive. If it’s hard to spin, leave it and come back in an hour. See if it now spins. If it does, you most likely have a bad line. What happens is the lines collapse internally. The MCpushes the fluid through and the shoes engage. The line collapses and keeps the pressure from relieving. Letting it sit, it slowly leaks back and releives the pressure, disengaging the shoes. Been there.
My guess too, and been there as well. |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31378 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:27 am Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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[quote="Helfen"]
Sharp64 wrote: |
One way to determine if it’s a brake line is to jack the car up and see if the wheel spins after taking it for a drive. If it’s hard to spin, leave it and come back in an hour. See if it now spins. If it does, you most likely have a bad line. What happens is the lines collapse internally. The MCpushes the fluid through and the shoes engage. The line collapses and keeps the pressure from relieving. Letting it sit, it slowly leaks back and releives the pressure, disengaging the shoes. Been there.
My guess too, and been there as well. |
Or open the bleed valve there and see if fluid squirts out, and if the drum then turns. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12856 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:34 am Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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Here's the adjuster.
One side of the slot is deeper.
If it's installed upside down, the brakes will do strange crap.
Check the bleed down as suggested above. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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60ragtop Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006 Posts: 7800 Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:53 am Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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angled adjuster screws depends on the year. 65 was the start from the factory. _________________ Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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Sharp64 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 5304 Location: Central Florida
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:06 am Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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[quote="Cusser"]
Helfen wrote: |
Sharp64 wrote: |
One way to determine if it’s a brake line is to jack the car up and see if the wheel spins after taking it for a drive. If it’s hard to spin, leave it and come back in an hour. See if it now spins. If it does, you most likely have a bad line. What happens is the lines collapse internally. The MCpushes the fluid through and the shoes engage. The line collapses and keeps the pressure from relieving. Letting it sit, it slowly leaks back and releives the pressure, disengaging the shoes. Been there.
My guess too, and been there as well. |
Or open the bleed valve there and see if fluid squirts out, and if the drum then turns. |
That would work better. Lol. _________________ 1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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crankbait09 Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016 Posts: 1304 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:33 am Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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TDCTDI wrote: |
Here's the adjuster.
One side of the slot is deeper.
If it's installed upside down, the brakes will do strange crap.
Check the bleed down as suggested above. |
Oh wow, I didn't realize the slots were different between the two. That makes me wonder if that is the issue. hell, I removed all the stars and cleaned them up. It may be correct, as I took them off and cleaned them so they'd go back on the same side they came off. But I have a track record (bearings) of mixing parts up. But I'll compare the drivers side to the passenger side and see if I see anything different. _________________ 1963 Ragtop |
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crankbait09 Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016 Posts: 1304 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:34 am Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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[quote="Cusser"]
Helfen wrote: |
Sharp64 wrote: |
One way to determine if it’s a brake line is to jack the car up and see if the wheel spins after taking it for a drive. If it’s hard to spin, leave it and come back in an hour. See if it now spins. If it does, you most likely have a bad line. What happens is the lines collapse internally. The MCpushes the fluid through and the shoes engage. The line collapses and keeps the pressure from relieving. Letting it sit, it slowly leaks back and releives the pressure, disengaging the shoes. Been there.
My guess too, and been there as well. |
Or open the bleed valve there and see if fluid squirts out, and if the drum then turns. |
well, I did just bleed the brakes last weekend, so I know fluid came out and all was functional. I couldn't imagine it being completely closed after one weekend....but what do I know. _________________ 1963 Ragtop |
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60ragtop Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006 Posts: 7800 Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:49 am Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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You don't have angled adjusters read the internet with caution _________________ Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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crankbait09 Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016 Posts: 1304 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:00 am Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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60ragtop wrote: |
You don't have angled adjusters read the internet with caution |
they are testing my knowledge and attention to detail _________________ 1963 Ragtop |
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Sharp64 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 5304 Location: Central Florida
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:27 am Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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[quote="crankbait09"]
Cusser wrote: |
Helfen wrote: |
Sharp64 wrote: |
One way to determine if it’s a brake line is to jack the car up and see if the wheel spins after taking it for a drive. If it’s hard to spin, leave it and come back in an hour. See if it now spins. If it does, you most likely have a bad line. What happens is the lines collapse internally. The MCpushes the fluid through and the shoes engage. The line collapses and keeps the pressure from relieving. Letting it sit, it slowly leaks back and releives the pressure, disengaging the shoes. Been there.
My guess too, and been there as well. |
Or open the bleed valve there and see if fluid squirts out, and if the drum then turns. |
well, I did just bleed the brakes last weekend, so I know fluid came out and all was functional. I couldn't imagine it being completely closed after one weekend....but what do I know. |
That's the thing, it will bleed. What you want to see is if it releases pressure on the shoes. The lines will collapse after the fluid is pushed through causing the shoes to keep pressure on the drum. Rather than driving it, you could also jack up the one wheel and check if the wheel turns freely. If it does, pump the brakes and then check to see if it is still turning. If its not and frees up after opening the bleed valve, you most likely have a bad line. The pressure from the MC opens it up to push the fluid through, but it isn't under the same pressure returning back through the line so it stays collapsed keeping pressure on the shoe. _________________ 1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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Sharp64 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 5304 Location: Central Florida
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:29 am Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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crankbait09 wrote: |
60ragtop wrote: |
You don't have angled adjusters read the internet with caution |
they are testing my knowledge and attention to detail |
I will say though that your adjusters look to be possibly uneven. Shouldn't result in the symptoms youre having but will make the shoes wear unevenly. _________________ 1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12856 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:34 am Post subject: Re: pulling to one side and drum really hot (front right) |
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60ragtop wrote: |
You don't have angled adjusters read the internet with caution |
Just putting it out there. You might also want to make sure that your new shoes match the profile of the old ones where they seat into the adjuster, the new shoes might have been made to work with the newer style adjusters.
The first time I ran into this situation was on a '60 that another shop had done the brake job & I had to disassemble everything to find out where the fault was. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Back to top |
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