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kangaboy
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Joined: August 28, 2010
Posts: 1063
Location: St. Louis, Mo
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 Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Carbs - Best bang for $400? |
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*mandatory FI plug in a carb topic*
Are you set on going with carbs? Going with a FI setup recently and not having to deal with jets and linkage has been awesome for me in the last year or so. Ill be at Schlafly tomorrow as well if you wanna take a gander.
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PumaVW79
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Joined: January 31, 2012
Posts: 487
Location: WGS84: 22.9083° S, 43.1964° W
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Carbs - Best bang for $400? |
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| Alstrup wrote: |
| sled wrote: |
so people like kadrons and ICT's but I think they suck. why bother going to dual carbs and messing with linkage and synchronization only to run a single choke (Venturi). a pair of dual-choke (Venturi) carbs will make a 1641 sing! |
Hmmmyeah, on the other hand dual sgl throats have their place. Again, a proper linkage is half the job. But Dual dual carbs is my first choice almost any day too.
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That's what VW also concluded after tons of research for its double carb'ed engines ... and installed successfully on millions of them.
Complete kit for less than $400-- Not fake ones |
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Spike0180
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Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Carbs - Best bang for $400? |
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| kangaboy wrote: |
*mandatory FI plug in a carb topic*
Are you set on going with carbs? Going with a FI setup recently and not having to deal with jets and linkage has been awesome for me in the last year or so. Ill be at Schlafly tomorrow as well if you wanna take a gander. |
Very good option. FI is awesome. The more time and money I spend on carbs, the more I understand the benefits of fuel injection and programmable ECU's. But I am also learning a lot about how I would go about making a map for a programmable ECU, and where to add timing and fuel and the relationship between the two. If I were to do FI, I would also do a programmable ignition system as well.
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Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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Fifty-Eight Rag
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Joined: September 07, 2011
Posts: 936
Location: St. Louis, MO
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Carbs - Best bang for $400? |
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A set of used 36 IDFS and good manifolds/linkage is still worth 400$, so it's a good investment. Unless you light them on fire or store them underwater they will retain their value.
They aren't made new, so I guess maybe if they were new they'd be out of the price range, but the question was best for 400$ and that's the answer.
Are ICTs ok? yes they are OK but they are not best.
They would rank somewhere in the top ten, just below kadrons, maybe in the top ten but not the top five. |
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Fifty-Eight Rag
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Joined: September 07, 2011
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Location: St. Louis, MO
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67rustavenger 
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Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9772
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Carbs - Best bang for $400? |
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| Fifty-Eight Rag wrote: |
| sled wrote: |
so people like kadrons and ICT's but I think they suck. why bother going to dual carbs and messing with linkage and synchronization only to run a single choke (Venturi). a pair of dual-choke (Venturi) carbs will make a 1641 sing!
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Out of curiosity...why do you say ICTs suck?
Is it that you get more performance from the 2 barrels or are they junk carbs? |
I have had 34ICT's and 32/34 PSDIT's. Both are single throat dual carbs. They idle on two cylinders. Nature of the beast. And I found them difficult to tune. I had to constantly fiddle with them.
The dual 2bbl. carbs are (IMO) much easier to tune. I didn't believe it. But it's true. Once you get them sorted. They are pretty much set and forget.
If you can find a set of 36 IDF's grab them if they are in good condition. You won't be sorry you did.
Good Luck.
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I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
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Krochus
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Joined: January 01, 2017
Posts: 892
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Carbs - Best bang for $400? |
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| Fifty-Eight Rag wrote: |
| sled wrote: |
so people like kadrons and ICT's but I think they suck. why bother going to dual carbs and messing with linkage and synchronization only to run a single choke (Venturi). a pair of dual-choke (Venturi) carbs will make a 1641 sing!
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Out of curiosity...why do you say ICTs suck?
Is it that you get more performance from the 2 barrels or are they junk carbs? |
I have had 34ICT's and 32/34 PSDIT's. Both are single throat dual carbs. They idle on two cylinders. Nature of the beast. And I found them difficult to tune. I had to constantly fiddle with them.
The dual 2bbl. carbs are (IMO) much easier to tune. I didn't believe it. But it's true. Once you get them sorted. They are pretty much set and forget.
If you can find a set of 36 IDF's grab them if they are in good condition. You won't be sorry you did.
Good Luck. |
My experience with them as well. IMO there are no pros to dual 1 barrel carbs over a well tuned central carb.
This infrared image of 34 ict’s on my 1776 illustrates the idle issues perfectly
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Carbs - Best bang for $400? |
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With the dual single barrel carbs, if you keep the cam very mild(below 230 @050) you can use a large balance tube and get an even idle.
With an engle 110 it idles better without the balance tube, strange but true.
However, IF you had a cam that mild I think a single DRLA or IDF would actually provide a better power band, as the longer length intake boosts torque below 4000 rpm. You don't see that done very often, but it is possible. A single IDF or DRLA has a reputation no better than the progressive......but with the right setup and jetting the single DRLA can shine, it has potential, while improving progressive is a fools errand IMO.
Last edited by modok on Fri May 04, 2018 7:07 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Carbs - Best bang for $400? |
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| Krochus wrote: |
My experience with them as well. IMO there are no pros to dual 1 barrel carbs over a well tuned central carb.
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Exactly!
The dual one barrels have an advantage above 4000 rpm, more power potential, but while a 1600 with an engle 110 and kadrons does perform surprisingly well at WOT, it's funky in a lot of ways. I would not want to put up with driving that everyday. Although the "automatic cylinder deactivation" at cruise can make for pretty good MPG  And pretty good in the cold too. |
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Fifty-Eight Rag
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Joined: September 07, 2011
Posts: 936
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Carbs - Best bang for $400? |
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| modok wrote: |
| Krochus wrote: |
My experience with them as well. IMO there are no pros to dual 1 barrel carbs over a well tuned central carb.
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Exactly!
The dual one barrels have an advantage above 4000 rpm, more power potential, but while a 1600 with an engle 110 and kadrons does perform surprisingly well at WOT, it's funky in a lot of ways. I would not want to put up with driving that everyday. Although the "automatic cylinder deactivation" at cruise can make for pretty good MPG And pretty good in the cold too. |
Ok you guys have me convinced.
I couldn't get a set of baby Webers to work well 30 years ago...I dont know why I considered them again.
I'm actually rethinking this whole thing. I might step up to a bigger engine and run some 40 IDFs since they are easier to come by.
I haven't bought any pistons yet but I am sticking with a 69mm crank. I'm pretty sure I want thick walled cylinders because I dont want any cooling issues.
What you guys think about a 1776 or a 1835 a set of Weber 40IDFs stock DP heads with a little bowl work and maybe a W110?
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Carbs - Best bang for $400? |
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Good idea.
Now we need to have........what's the best cam? |
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Fifty-Eight Rag
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Location: St. Louis, MO
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sled
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Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: Carbs - Best bang for $400? |
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| Fifty-Eight Rag wrote: |
I'm actually rethinking this whole thing. I might step up to a bigger engine and run some 40 IDFs since they are easier to come by.
I haven't bought any pistons yet but I am sticking with a 69mm crank. I'm pretty sure I want thick walled cylinders because I dont want any cooling issues.
What you guys think about a 1776 or a 1835 a set of Weber 40IDFs stock DP heads with a little bowl work and maybe a W110? |
1776 without a doubt.
as far as cam, read Torben's (Alstrup) replies above suggesting cam choice.
what do you mean by a little bowl work?
some mildly ported 35x32 OE heads will be awesome. 8.25-8.5:1 and .040 deck will be a snappy little engine with more torque than you'd expect. Fun to actually drive on the street and bang gears, while being very tame and yield many trouble free miles.
as Torben mentioned, if you're going to buy new heads, look into the Steve Tims super stock ported heads 37x32. Don't be tempted by 40x35 heads, you don't need the 'big' valves, especially the 35 exhaust.
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 10:36 pm Post subject: Re: Carbs - Best bang for $400? |
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| I agree with Torben also. |
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Fifty-Eight Rag
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Location: St. Louis, MO
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APPLEGREENVW
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Fifty-Eight Rag
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andk5591
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Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16758
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Carbs - Best bang for $400? |
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Not hijacking, but want to make sure I understand - the CSP linkage with Dual 40 HPMX will or will not work with a stock shroud with the Empi intakes as supplied.
If it works, that would be the way I would go, BUT budget in for some idles, mains and airs. I think its about $60 for a complete set and do some research on the best guess for your set up. I doubt it will be correct out of the box.
And what really sucks is asking 5 people for jet sizes and you will get 5 different answers.
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Carbs - Best bang for $400? |
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If you make or buy a linkage like the CSP crossbar, that uses heim joints and the carb bases are flat steel plates......it can be easily changed to fit ANY manifolds.
If the heim joint needs go up/down....no problem. if it needs to go back or forward you can just drill another hole. if you have basic metal fab skills (mig welder and so forth), this is the way to go. |
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