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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:39 pm Post subject: Espar D2 Heater Install in Late Westy |
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I should have an Espar D2 arriving tomorrow afternoon for install in my '78 Westy. I got what seems to be a pretty good deal on a reconditioned used one with new install parts on ebay. (I think Spring is a good time to buy these.)
So I'd love to see and hear about where you installed your furnace-type heater and how you ducted everything.
I'm pretty stoked about this; I've wanted one for quite some time.
_________________
Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing
Last edited by vwwestyman on Sat May 05, 2018 7:27 am; edited 2 times in total |
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Espar Propex Webasto Heater Install in Late Westy |
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I bought a propane heater (Mr Buddy or some such.) from a sporting goods store that was on sale in the summer for a significant discount. The owner of the store was foolish enough to ask me why I was buying a heater in the summer......  I’m envious man, I want a propex
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: Espar Propex Webasto Heater Install in Late Westy |
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| TomWesty wrote: |
| I bought a propane heater (Mr Buddy or some such.) from a sporting goods store that was on sale in the summer for a significant discount. The owner of the store was foolish enough to ask me why I was buying a heater in the summer...... I’m envious man, I want a propex |
I've used the Mr. Buddy heaters a few times in my Bus. Works OK and I tend to think the worries about co and all that are a little overblown in a drafty Westy, especially with the top up. But one time I did have all the moisture it expelled freeze all over the windows and inside the Bus.
It'll be nice not hauling those things around! And not dealing with that mess again.
Sometimes when the foster kids are driving me crazy, I'll retreat to the Bus for a little bit to be able to sit in quiet. It'll also be nice to have a furnace for when I do that!
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3840
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: Espar Propex Webasto Heater Install in Late Westy |
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| You may have looked already, but there are several installs in the Vanagon threads, and I seem to recall BayCreamPuff did a Propex job too. |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Hoody
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 1948
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Espar Propex Webasto Heater Install in Late Westy |
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| I have been doing a lot of thinking about installing an auxiliary heater at some point. Just have not decided which type or model. At this point I am leaning towards an underneath mounted unit. Having just finished up restoring the entire interior on my 78 Westy I have also thought long and hard about the wasted space that I have noticed. There are only a couple of places that the units can be mounted in the interior without butchering the original cabinetry. I have a restored fridge which takes up some additional space that an ice box would not. Depending on which make and model you have and how it is fueled will also dictate your options. I would not want to lose the space under the rear bench to mount the unit. There is quite a bit of space on the bottom of the fridge unit under the shelf where the heating and cooling coils reside. Much more if you have an ice box. Also there is a large area under the fridge box which is wasted and could be used for ducting. That being said I would lean towards mounting the unit in the sink cabinet on the bottom shelf under the reservoir. Run the exhaust ducting out through the hole where the ice box drain would run. Run 2 air ducts....one to the grate underneath the fridge box and the other one back to the grate under the bench seat plumbed into the original heating hose. In my opinion this would be the most minimally invasive place to run the hoses and place the unit so as to have the least amount of cutting up of the cabinets and utilizing the wasted space while also preserving the original appearance. |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Espar Propex Webasto Heater Install in Late Westy |
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| Hoody wrote: |
| I have been doing a lot of thinking about installing an auxiliary heater at some point. Just have not decided which type or model. At this point I am leaning towards an underneath mounted unit. Having just finished up restoring the entire interior on my 78 Westy I have also thought long and hard about the wasted space that I have noticed. There are only a couple of places that the units can be mounted in the interior without butchering the original cabinetry. I have a restored fridge which takes up some additional space that an ice box would not. Depending on which make and model you have and how it is fueled will also dictate your options. I would not want to lose the space under the rear bench to mount the unit. There is quite a bit of space on the bottom of the fridge unit under the shelf where the heating and cooling coils reside. Much more if you have an ice box. Also there is a large area under the fridge box which is wasted and could be used for ducting. That being said I would lean towards mounting the unit in the sink cabinet on the bottom shelf under the reservoir. Run the exhaust ducting out through the hole where the ice box drain would run. Run 2 air ducts....one to the grate underneath the fridge box and the other one back to the grate under the bench seat plumbed into the original heating hose. In my opinion this would be the most minimally invasive place to run the hoses and place the unit so as to have the least amount of cutting up of the cabinets and utilizing the wasted space while also preserving the original appearance. |
I like this idea!
I don't know for sure if it'll all fit, but if so that does seem nice. I have also thought about maybe building a box to store/protect the heater and making it T into a hose leading to the front, between seats vent and the back seat vent. Or maybe one of those is the outlet and one is the return. I'll have to wait until it gets here to see if that could actually fit.
I have a friend who just had a Propex installed in their split bus. They plumbed it up so that it is mounted under the bus and plumbed such that it goes into the factory heating system.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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Hikelite
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2012
Posts: 557
Location: Colville, WA
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Espar Propex Webasto Heater Install in Late Westy |
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Hi Dave
Is the D2 a diesel powered unit?
I want to put a camping heater in ours as well, but I didn't want to introduce another fuel source. Where will you be mounting the fuel tank? It was that consideration that has me focus on gasoline powered units.
I'm certainly going to be watching your thread for ideas on the install 
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My 1968 Campmobile |
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Espar Propex Webasto Heater Install in Late Westy |
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| Hikelite wrote: |
Hi Dave
Is the D2 a diesel powered unit?
I want to put a camping heater in ours as well, but I didn't want to introduce another fuel source. Where will you be mounting the fuel tank? It was that consideration that has me focus on gasoline powered units.
I'm certainly going to be watching your thread for ideas on the install |
Yes, it is a diesel unit. For Espar/Eberspacher D means diesel powered units, and B means gasoline (benzine/benzin in German) powered units.
Because this Bus has a TDI conversion, that is the fuel I've already got on board.
However, there are also gasoline heaters available. For some reason they seem to be quite a bit more expensive even though they are very very similar and share the majority of parts.
I've seen more than one person on the Vanagon forums that have installed a diesel unit in their gas-powered van and been very happy. They simply install some small fuel tank (i.e. maybe a lawnmower tank) to go with it. I've seen the fuel tank installed in the vehicle near the heater, under the van, and in the engine compartment.
Many of those folks use kerosene which is less smelly than diesel (in case of a small spill when filling) and is apparently a little cleaner burning in the heater. Reports are that Espar recommends running come kerosense through the heater on occasion as a matter of maintenance. I get not wanting to have two fuels, but for a thousand dollar difference (near retail costs) I might be willing to deal with a small tank. They are reportedly very efficient so a small tank would easily last a long weekend.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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Hikelite
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2012
Posts: 557
Location: Colville, WA
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Espar Propex Webasto Heater Install in Late Westy |
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Ah I missed that you had converted the bus to a tdi
In that case... cool
Yes I am aware of the B vs D. That's why I asked.
I think the price difference between diesel and gas is simple supply and demand. The market for air heaters are trucks, rvs, and boats. They tend to run diesel.
I'll still be watching for how you do the ducting, but I'll most likely order a heater from china.
Gas heaters are available on ebay for 500ish dollars.
for example https://www.ebay.com/itm/2KW-Diesel-Gasoline-Air-P...2883825335
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~Kevin
My 1968 Campmobile |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Espar Propex Webasto Heater Install in Late Westy |
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| Hikelite wrote: |
Ah I missed that you had converted the bus to a tdi
In that case... cool
Yes I am aware of the B vs D. That's why I asked.
I think the price difference between diesel and gas is simple supply and demand. The market for air heaters are trucks, rvs, and boats. They tend to run diesel.
I'll still be watching for how you do the ducting, but I'll most likely order a heater from china.
Gas heaters are available on ebay for 500ish dollars.
for example https://www.ebay.com/itm/2KW-Diesel-Gasoline-Air-P...2883825335 |
That could certainly be all there is for the difference.
I've watched for a while on ebay, and seen several Espars that appear to be take-offs from semi trucks. (No idea why you'd remove the heater, but that is what they seem to be.) My kit came in at $590 including shipping. According to the ad, that is a reconditioned heater with new install parts (ducting, wiring, etc). I chose to go Espar over one of the cheaper copies for the ease of finding maintenance/repair parts in the future as well as being able to call a distributor with future questions.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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danfromsyr
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Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Espar Propex Webasto Heater Install in Late Westy |
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just to note that they toss the word 'gas' or 'gasoline' around and still mean DIESEL .. AMHIK but I'm fixing to run gasoline thru it.. if anything gasoline has less BTUs per oz/liter than Diesel.
you want to find one listed as Benzine for a true gasoline heater.
also you can buy diesel chinese ones for ~$200 shipped on fleabay.
| Hikelite wrote: |
Ah I missed that you had converted the bus to a tdi
In that case... cool
Yes I am aware of the B vs D. That's why I asked.
I think the price difference between diesel and gas is simple supply and demand. The market for air heaters are trucks, rvs, and boats. They tend to run diesel.
I'll still be watching for how you do the ducting, but I'll most likely order a heater from china.
Gas heaters are available on ebay for 500ish dollars.
for example https://www.ebay.com/itm/2KW-Diesel-Gasoline-Air-P...2883825335 |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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tootype2crazy
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Joined: October 08, 2007
Posts: 1276
Location: St. Louis Missouri
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Espar Propex Webasto Heater Install in Late Westy |
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I proudly run a Eberspacher BA6 and have for several years now. I have several other heaters I retain as backups/for future projects. You haven't really had heat in a bus until you've experienced a fuel-fired furnace type heater. You will love it. I consider it a must for any old vw that is going to be driven in cold weather.
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air-cooled or nothing for me
1978 Sunroof Deluxe Bus (daily driver)
1978 Transporter (mom's, making into a camper)
1970 Single Cab 2.1 turbo/EFI 6 Rib, 78 front beam, vanagon backing plates on rear (project)
2001 GTI VR6 (wife's) |
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pittwagen
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Joined: November 08, 2005
Posts: 765
Location: North of the 49th parallel
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Espar Propex Webasto Heater Install in Late Westy |
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| So mount your D2 under the bus between the frame rails using a T5 mounting bracket which appears to be available on Amazon. The chosen location for the espar in the T5 is under the vehicle. Build a protective shroud around it if you want. Bring the cold air return up under the drivers seat and plumb the hot air into the existing hot air vent at the rear base of the front seats. Add any other outlets you want using the numerous options listed in the espar parts catalog. Order through your local diesel truck repair center that installs and repairs espar heaters. Oh and they sell the really nice stainless fuel hose clamps in every size you could think of. |
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Espar Propex Webasto Heater Install in Late Westy |
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| pittwagen wrote: |
| So mount your D2 under the bus between the frame rails using a T5 mounting bracket which appears to be available on Amazon. The chosen location for the espar in the T5 is under the vehicle. Build a protective shroud around it if you want. Bring the cold air return up under the drivers seat and plumb the hot air into the existing hot air vent at the rear base of the front seats. Add any other outlets you want using the numerous options listed in the espar parts catalog. Order through your local diesel truck repair center that installs and repairs espar heaters. Oh and they sell the really nice stainless fuel hose clamps in every size you could think of. |
This is good info! I did not realize that it was allowed to be mounted under any vehicle; everything I have seen showed them mounted inside.
I will certainly research this more, and crawl around under the Bus with the unit too. It arrived this afternoon!
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Espar Propex Webasto Heater Install in Late Westy |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
| pittwagen wrote: |
| So mount your D2 under the bus between the frame rails using a T5 mounting bracket which appears to be available on Amazon. The chosen location for the espar in the T5 is under the vehicle. Build a protective shroud around it if you want. Bring the cold air return up under the drivers seat and plumb the hot air into the existing hot air vent at the rear base of the front seats. Add any other outlets you want using the numerous options listed in the espar parts catalog. Order through your local diesel truck repair center that installs and repairs espar heaters. Oh and they sell the really nice stainless fuel hose clamps in every size you could think of. |
This is good info! I did not realize that it was allowed to be mounted under any vehicle; everything I have seen showed them mounted inside.
I will certainly research this more, and crawl around under the Bus with the unit too. It arrived this afternoon! |
Yup, it sure does get installed under the van. And even gets installed sideways. (So the intake and exhaust pipes don't have to face down.) I figured it probably could get installed sideways, but wasn't totally sure.
I'm not sure how to post pics from this .pdf directly, so scroll down to page 13.
https://www.butlertechnik.com/downloads/Eberspacher_Heater_VW_T5_installation_manual.pdf
I'll need to do a little measuring to see how it fits in relation to the frame and such on my Bus, but that is promising information indeed.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: Espar Propex Webasto Heater Install in Late Westy |
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Well I think I'll just turn this into a build/install thread!
After finding out the heater may be installed under the bus, that has made things way simpler.
I removed the rusty heat diverter flap that wasn't doing anything anyway. The heater is roughly the same size, so it'll basically fit right in the same space.
The really easy install would be to use the outlet between the front seats as the recirculation/cool air return duct and the vent under the rear seat as the heat outlet.
However, I think it would be nice to have heat come out of both vents!
So I'm thinking I'll use a Y fitting to direct heat to both, and cut a return somewhere. I like the idea of that being at the back of the cubby under the front seats, though I'll look at that a little more.
Then I just need to decide where I want the controller and route the wiring.
The kit.
Couple options on mounting it.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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TomWesty
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Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Espar Propex Webasto Heater Install in Late Westy |
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No way I’m going to relocate my CD changer......
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vwwestyman
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captincanuck
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Joined: August 13, 2014
Posts: 730
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Espar D2 Heater Install in Late Westy |
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I am about to install one of the Chinese copies in my bus. Don't know if this applies to yours but one of the install options you have shown above might not work as the glow plug needs to be pointing up. That's how it is on mine. I'm also not crazy about having it under the bus with possible moisture so I'm putting it inside somewhere.
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1979 Westfalia "FireFly" Subaru 2.2 with Subaru gears 5spd.
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