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1969 SB Automatic Trans CV Shaft Play
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speedracer89
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:03 am    Post subject: 1969 SB Automatic Trans CV Shaft Play Reply with quote

Hello,

I am new VW's with automatic transmissions and the CV shafts have a decent amount of in and out play.

I know most CV shafts are not suppose to have this play, So my question is this normal?

See Pics for Details.

SHAFT OUT
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


SHAFT IN
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by speedracer89 on Thu May 10, 2018 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: 1969 SB Automatic Trans CV Shaft Play Reply with quote

The axial play (along its length) in the CV is a required part of the operation of the so-called "IRS" rear suspension. As the rear wheels move up and down, the effective length of the axles must change, and the axial play in the CV joint allows for this.

Play in the radial direction is NOT wanted, however, and indicates wear.

UPDATE: Whoa, now I'm looking more closely at your photos... I see where the play you are talking about is. It doesn't look like the play is in the CV, but rather in the differential housing or flanges. I'm not sure what would cause this... is there a bearing/carrier inside that has broken or come loose?
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speedracer89
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: 1969 SB Automatic Trans CV Shaft Play Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:

UPDATE: Whoa, now I'm looking more closely at your photos... I see where the play you are talking about is. It doesn't look like the play is in the CV, but rather in the differential housing or flanges. I'm not sure what would cause this... is there a bearing/carrier inside that has broken or come loose?


Yes that is what I thought the play is in the housing and is probably why grease is spraying everywhere. I am also not sure what would cause that is why I am asking on here to get some input to see if anyone else has had this issue.

I don't have a diagram on the differential on a automatic transmission. My next step will be to take this apart and see if there is a bearing broke or something else.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: 1969 SB Automatic Trans CV Shaft Play Reply with quote

Check this thread about rebuilding the auto tranny yourself. It may give you the insight you are looking for.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066

This tranny is a common design, and was used in slightly modified form on Buses, Type 4s, even the Dasher, I think. Given the Bentley instructions, even AAMCO could rebuild it.

Without reviewing the link above, I am thinking a big C-clip or similar may have come loose just inside.

UPDATE: Hmmm, I guess I am misremembering... that thread is just about the tranny, not the differential, so it doesn't have it. The Bentley should have a neat exploded diagram/photos as well, though.

Maybe check this thread, too:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=463081

If you do take the tranny out, take the time and trouble to replace a critical seal between the tranny and the final drive... allowing the mixing of gear oil and ATF will cause major damage! The first thread above covers this, I think.
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Multi69s
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 1969 SB Automatic Trans CV Shaft Play Reply with quote

I would definitely pull the tranny, separate the differential and find out what the problem is. Here is a pic of your setup.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I would seriously hazard a guess that the circlip (#1) has come off. This would allow the flanged shaft to move in and out. Why did it happen? I am purely guessing, but I suspect that at one point, there was a problem with the CV joints (worn, binding, not lubed). As was mentioned previously, the rear axle must be able to move in and out in relation to the wheel and trans, as the suspension goes through its travel. If it were not able to, due to what I mentioned, it could pull the circlip out of its groove.

The trans really needs to come out and have this fixed, and while its apart, change the pinion seals as well.
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speedracer89
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 1969 SB Automatic Trans CV Shaft Play Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
Check this thread about rebuilding the auto tranny yourself. It may give you the insight you are looking for.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066

This tranny is a common design, and was used in slightly modified form on Buses, Type 4s, even the Dasher, I think. Given the Bentley instructions, even AAMCO could rebuild it.

Without reviewing the link above, I am thinking a big C-clip or similar may have come loose just inside.

UPDATE: Hmmm, I guess I am misremembering... that thread is just about the tranny, not the differential, so it doesn't have it. The Bentley should have a neat exploded diagram/photos as well, though.

Maybe check this thread, too:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=463081

If you do take the tranny out, take the time and trouble to replace a critical seal between the tranny and the final drive... allowing the mixing of gear oil and ATF will cause major damage! The first thread above covers this, I think.


Thank for the help
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speedracer89
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 1969 SB Automatic Trans CV Shaft Play Reply with quote

Multi69s wrote:
I would definitely pull the tranny, separate the differential and find out what the problem is. Here is a pic of your setup.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I would seriously hazard a guess that the circlip (#1) has come off. This would allow the flanged shaft to move in and out. Why did it happen? I am purely guessing, but I suspect that at one point, there was a problem with the CV joints (worn, binding, not lubed). As was mentioned previously, the rear axle must be able to move in and out in relation to the wheel and trans, as the suspension goes through its travel. If it were not able to, due to what I mentioned, it could pull the circlip out of its groove.

The trans really needs to come out and have this fixed, and while its apart, change the pinion seals as well.


Thanks for the diagram that really helps.
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speedracer89
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 1969 SB Automatic Trans CV Shaft Play UPDATED with fix Reply with quote

So a little update on this issue

When I pulled the axles out of the diff I found the axles wore the axle housing down.

See picture below to see the space.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
\

What must have happened is the CV joints were probably tight at one point and causes the axles to grind the hub down.

Notice the groove in the hub below.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


These parts are pretty much non existent so I had to find a fix.

What I did is had the hubs counter bored then basically pressed a bushing in with lock tight to make up for the space that was there.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


We will see how long this last if it doesn't last, I am going to have to find out what is causing this issue and repair again. I am in the process of design brand new machined hubs just to have a spare set because these are so rare.
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tweakhx
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 1969 SB Automatic Trans CV Shaft Play Reply with quote

Hey! Any update to this issue?

I have the same play in the same area (and it seems a leak from said areas) and am not sure how to approach it. I haven't tore it down because I just found it tonight. It seems weird that it would wear out there to the point of being so loose.

Let me know!
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