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Vanagon Fuel Fill "BURP" - SOLVED! Umm problems in California!
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:18 am    Post subject: Vanagon Fuel Fill "BURP" - SOLVED! Umm problems in California! Reply with quote

My '85 has had the all-too-common fuel fill-up puke. When filling up at full speed, just after the pump auto shut-off stops the pump, a bunch of gasoline would puke out of the filler. This issue occurs because the max fill rate of the fuel pumps has been increased since the van was made and the venting system can't keep up with the mild pressure build-up in the tank and so, after the pump shuts off, the pressure in the tank is enough to push some fuel back out. I've seen various recommendations on this forum to fill at a slow rate, hold the nozzle just right, etc... but I'm not really a fan of making the process of filling up the vehicle require special skills/knowledge. To that end, I did some looking online and found that splash-back is very common in the boating community (where boats are typically kept in service for more years than automobiles) and where fuel spilling is even more dangerous and detrimental to the environment than it is with land vehicles. Because of that, the boating community has developed various fixes for the issue in older boats. I settled on the Perko anti fuel spash back valve. http://www.perko.com/catalog/fuel_system_component...per_valve/

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It is a one-way flapper valve that allows the fuel to flow into the tank, but as soon as the pump shuts off and fuel begins to flow back the other direction, the flapper valve shuts and stops the fuel from puking out the filler.

I got around to installing it in the filler tube last weekend. The Perko valve is designed to be installed in 1-1/2" ID marine fuel hose. Conveniently, there is a section of the vanagon filler that is a straight section that is 1-1/2" OD. I picked up a foot of 1-1/2" marine fuel hose, sliced out a section of the vanagon filler tube exactly the length of the flapper valve, cut a section of the marine fuel hose to the appropriate length, installed the flapper in the middle of it, installed the vanagon filler tube pieces on either side of the flapper valve, and installed three clamps to finish the assembly. The two outer clamps seal the marine hose to the vanagon pieces and the center clamp seals the hose to the flapper valve. Here's a pic with it installed.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm pleased to report that I filled up last night with the pump on full blast and when the auto shutoff clicked it off, no more puking of fuel.

Total cost was ~$30 shipped for the valve and the foot of marine fuel hose.

I call that a win.


Last edited by ?Waldo? on Thu May 10, 2018 11:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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joetiger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

Brilliant!
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Joe T.

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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

That's really cool. My '89 has a check valve at the base of the fill tube, which I haven't seen on earlier models. I assume it serves a similar function.
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing that.

Do you think Fill-up Puke (FUP) is more likely to happen on Vanagons with the smaller diameter fill pipe and nozzle hole flap?

My guess is that earlier Vanagons with the larger diameter fill pipe (up to 1984 ? mid '85 ?) and no "nozzle hole flap" may allow for some venting between the gas pump nozzle and fill pipe so less chance of FUP.

Neil.

edited for clarity
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

This is awesome ! Thank you for this . Its such a headache filling up with having to hold the nozzle just right etc... this fix will be in my future
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

Vanagon Nut wrote:
Thanks for sharing that.

Do you think Fill-up Puke (FUP) is more likely to happen on Vanagons with the smaller diameter fill pipe and nozzle hole flap?

My guess is that earlier Vanagons with the larger diameter fill pipe (up to 1984 ? mid '85 ?) and no "nozzle hole flap" may allow for some venting between the gas pump nozzle and fill pipe so less chance of FUP.

Neil.

edited for clarity


Yeah, I remember in an old Samba thread it was mentioned that early Vanagons did not have this problem and that it seems to only occur on smaller diameter fill pipes. VW added a ball valve (ping pong ball) to the bottom of the filler tube starting in '89 which solved the problem, but those filler tubes are fairly hard to find.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

Sweet thanks, great solution for us with this issue.
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

My 84 will certainly puke if I fill until the pump shuts off - can usually be avoided if I position the nozzle handle raised - i.e. get the nozzle end against the lower side of the fill tube.

This valve intrigues me, but I wonder if it helps with those ridiculous nozzles used in California that seemed designed to assure you spill fuel every time you use them on a Vanagon.

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dobryan
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

This is a great solution.

My '87 puked until I retrofitted with a filler tube from a '90 with the ping pong ball cage.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

So much simpler to just buy a Syncro. Wink
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

raoul mitgong wrote:
So much simpler to just buy a Syncro. Wink
-d


Very Happy I get lulled to sleep by the Syncro then end up with gas all over my shoes when I fill up the 2wd...That and forgetting where the filler is...
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

raoul mitgong wrote:
So much simpler to just buy a Syncro. Wink
-d


Silliest thing I've seen posted all week. Thanks for that.
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

Ahwahnee wrote:
My 84 will certainly puke if I fill until the pump shuts off - can usually be avoided if I position the nozzle handle raised - i.e. get the nozzle end against the lower side of the fill tube.


My '84 is exactly the same way.

Cool solution, Andrew! Thanks!
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

Interesting solution! Good thinking.

On a semi-related note: when I replaced the gas tank lines and fittings on my 83.5 Westy, I ordered a new rubber filler neck while I was at it. When I removed the old one and compared, the old one had a sort of one-way valve built in. but the new one was wide open. Anyone else have this?

I had been having the classic fill-up leakage problem, not the puking issue, so I don't know if the filler neck valve was actually effective or not. A new filler tube grommet and crossover line did the trick for me. No more puddles or guessing how many gallons would fit.

New on the left; old on the right (from "inside")
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Old filler neck from "outside"
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I had been having the overfill problem, but the new crossover line must have done the trick. No more puddles or guessing how many gallons would fit.
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

Damn, I thought this fuel puking thing was a standard feature on my 86 !

Thanks Andrew, this thread is bookmarked and added to the to do list !
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

When I worked for VW back in the day, there was a recall for the Rabbit and Scirocco filler necks. It involved removing the filler neck and pressing in a metal flapper valve in the far end of the filler neck. Got pretty fast at doing them. Same idea as above. Thanks for posting.
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

Pretty darn cool. What are the chances of the junction leaking over time?
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

Eternity is long... Considering that the filler tube seems no worse for wear after 33 years and the hose I used is marine fuel hose, I don't foresee any issues with it in the time before manually driven vehicles and/or internal combustion engines become illegal.
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 9:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

Christopher Schimke wrote:
Ahwahnee wrote:
My 84 will certainly puke if I fill until the pump shuts off - can usually be avoided if I position the nozzle handle raised - i.e. get the nozzle end against the lower side of the fill tube.


My '84 is exactly the same way.

Cool solution, Andrew! Thanks!


'84', I think, came in "federal"(49 state?) and California emissions versions. One had the narrower neck; one the wider one. May explain why some older ones did not have the problem and some did.

In my own '84, I noticed the overflow problem was much worse before I fixed the fuel tank venting system (the second, and hopefully last time). Still not perfect, however.
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 9:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Fuel Fill-up Puke - SOLVED! Reply with quote

Great solution! My 84 pukes at every fill up if I don't listen for the change in pitch as the fuel nears the top. I'll add it to the list!
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