| Author |
Message |
05gh
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 157
Location: The Netherlands
|
 Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 3:35 am Post subject: Re: oil leakage from oil cooler? |
 |
|
Thanks for advice, pic shows result afther cleaning using break cleaner.
question: the heaterbox are still full of oil, how can I clean them without disassembeling
_________________
63 doubble door panel van
79 de luxe micro bus
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
| Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:00 am Post subject: Re: oil leakage from oil cooler? |
|
|
the heater boxes are always on, either to the cabin or under the bus. Cleaning them in any fashion requires removing them, which can be a challenge on its own if an exhaust stud breaks. One option you have is just driving it on some long trips with heat turned off to the cabin, and letting the oil burn out on its own which it will do - just don't use the heat until you have made many miles in it. The other option is removing them, soaking them in something that dissolves oil like simple green and water etc., or hot soapy ammonia water, then rinsing them out good, and repeating daily until there is no more oil coming off them. I hate to say just drive it and don't use the heat but it is summer coming so that is what I would probably do. There is a lining between the bottom of the heater box and the fins, which I believe was an asbestos mat back in the day although it could be fiberglass. Be careful with it.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
|
| Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:13 am Post subject: Re: oil leakage from oil cooler? |
|
|
| SGKent wrote: |
| the heater boxes are always on, either to the cabin or under the bus. Cleaning them in any fashion requires removing them, which can be a challenge on its own if an exhaust stud breaks. One option you have is just driving it on some long trips with heat turned off to the cabin, and letting the oil burn out on its own which it will do - just don't use the heat until you have made many miles in it. The other option is removing them, soaking them in something that dissolves oil like simple green and water etc., or hot soapy ammonia water, then rinsing them out good, and repeating daily until there is no more oil coming off them. I hate to say just drive it and don't use the heat but it is summer coming so that is what I would probably do. There is a lining between the bottom of the heater box and the fins, which I believe was an asbestos mat back in the day although it could be fiberglass. Be careful with it. |
Removing the accordion tubes and capping the ducts heading forward into the cab will keep the smell out of the cab.
One might be able to block the drain holes on the HE's and then dump some low volatility solvent into the boxes in situ, let the solvent work for a day or two and then drain it out, letting the rig sit for several more days so that as much solvent-oil mix as possible would exit the boxes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
| Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:15 am Post subject: Re: oil leakage from oil cooler? |
|
|
| Wildthings wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| the heater boxes are always on, either to the cabin or under the bus. Cleaning them in any fashion requires removing them, which can be a challenge on its own if an exhaust stud breaks. One option you have is just driving it on some long trips with heat turned off to the cabin, and letting the oil burn out on its own which it will do - just don't use the heat until you have made many miles in it. The other option is removing them, soaking them in something that dissolves oil like simple green and water etc., or hot soapy ammonia water, then rinsing them out good, and repeating daily until there is no more oil coming off them. I hate to say just drive it and don't use the heat but it is summer coming so that is what I would probably do. There is a lining between the bottom of the heater box and the fins, which I believe was an asbestos mat back in the day although it could be fiberglass. Be careful with it. |
Removing the accordion tubes and capping the ducts heading forward into the cab will keep the smell out of the cab.
One might be able to block the drain holes on the HE's and then dump some low volatility solvent into the boxes in situ, let the solvent work for a day or two and then drain it out, letting the rig sit for several more days so that as much solvent-oil mix as possible would exit the boxes. |
nothing flammable.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
|
| Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:24 am Post subject: Re: oil leakage from oil cooler? |
|
|
| SGKent wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| the heater boxes are always on, either to the cabin or under the bus. Cleaning them in any fashion requires removing them, which can be a challenge on its own if an exhaust stud breaks. One option you have is just driving it on some long trips with heat turned off to the cabin, and letting the oil burn out on its own which it will do - just don't use the heat until you have made many miles in it. The other option is removing them, soaking them in something that dissolves oil like simple green and water etc., or hot soapy ammonia water, then rinsing them out good, and repeating daily until there is no more oil coming off them. I hate to say just drive it and don't use the heat but it is summer coming so that is what I would probably do. There is a lining between the bottom of the heater box and the fins, which I believe was an asbestos mat back in the day although it could be fiberglass. Be careful with it. |
Removing the accordion tubes and capping the ducts heading forward into the cab will keep the smell out of the cab.
One might be able to block the drain holes on the HE's and then dump some low volatility solvent into the boxes in situ, let the solvent work for a day or two and then drain it out, letting the rig sit for several more days so that as much solvent-oil mix as possible would exit the boxes. |
nothing flammable. |
Some people just don't know how to have fun  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
05gh
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 157
Location: The Netherlands
|
| Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: oil leakage from oil cooler? |
|
|
to clean the heaterbox, I have spray a can of break cleaner in the heaterbox, let it stay for while, drilled a small hole in the top bottem of the heaterbox to drain the resedu and oil.
_________________
63 doubble door panel van
79 de luxe micro bus
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
05gh
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 157
Location: The Netherlands
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: oil leakage from oil cooler? |
|
|
It was a accumulation of problems at first the main seal looks to be the problem, afther cleaning en replacing the seal it still leaks oil, butt less then before. The pushrod seal replacing was a improvement but still leaking oil. Ath°ther all the breatherbox seal was causing the problem that oil was dripping of the air reflector plate. Afther 2 weeks and 3 days hard work Im happy  there no oil dripping.
_________________
63 doubble door panel van
79 de luxe micro bus
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KentABQ
Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016
Posts: 2406
Location: Albuquerque NM
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: oil leakage from oil cooler? |
|
|
Great job at tracking and fixing those leaks.
I'm sure it wasn't easy. But well worth all the effort.
_________________
-Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea
Bus ownership via emoticons:
        ---williamM |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: oil leakage from oil cooler? |
|
|
| If your engine doesn't run overly hot then replacing the seals every 150-200K kilometer is probably a good idea, if the engine overheats enough to prematurely age the seals then more frequent resealing is necessary. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Volswagon
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2009
Posts: 299
Location: Knoxville, TN
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: oil leakage from oil cooler? |
|
|
Bravo!!! I can say we've all been there and most learned the hard way, often on the side of the road.
_________________
I know the pieces fit, cos I watched them fall away.
Wanna hear God laugh? Just talk about your plans.
'75 Bus https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=697183&highlight= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
05gh
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 157
Location: The Netherlands
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:53 am Post subject: Re: oil leakage from oil cooler? |
|
|
| Wildthings wrote: |
| If your engine doesn't run overly hot then replacing the seals every 150-200K kilometer is probably a good idea, if the engine overheats enough to prematurely age the seals then more frequent resealing is necessary. |
I am a bit concerned the pushed type seals are replaced 5 year back. I drive approximately 5000 km / year. So that to early. It is a standard 2l injection. And all the cooling metal is in place. So what can be the cause?
_________________
63 doubble door panel van
79 de luxe micro bus
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:26 am Post subject: Re: oil leakage from oil cooler? |
|
|
| 05gh wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| If your engine doesn't run overly hot then replacing the seals every 150-200K kilometer is probably a good idea, if the engine overheats enough to prematurely age the seals then more frequent resealing is necessary. |
I am a bit concerned the pushed type seals are replaced 5 year back. I drive approximately 5000 km / year. So that to early. It is a standard 2l injection. And all the cooling metal is in place. So what can be the cause? |
The seals "age" to a degree even if they are kept cool....but heat accelerates that. Its not just temperature. The primary characteristic is an increase in hardness/loss of flexability. It takes a slight compression set where its compressed between the head and pushrod tube.
While Viton does well checmically with motor oil.....its not a 100% bulletproof rubber. None of them are.
As it gets dirty.....your motor oil has a certain percentage of fuel in it, all kinds of waste products etc. This does not cause outright attack of Viton....but adds to the hardening process.
Since the inner end of the PR tube is a sliding joint.....compression set and hardening with age usually leaks here first.
Also keep in mind....if you have head temps that average 385°F with peaks of 400° F......depending on which type of Viton our o-rings are made of.....the constant temp range for Viton is a maximum of 400°-440° F.
While 200k miles may be quite optimistic......125k-150k is about right in my experience
Yes....its the heat cycling PRIMARILY.....and lifespans get worse if you overheat.....but from back in the days of high per year mileage and very high ambient temps.....50k per year with 50% over 100° F.....about 3 years and 150k miles was common lifespan.
Before that period.....25k miles per year and slightly lower ambient temps.....about 5 years at about the same mileage was common.
Its been my experience that there will be some slight leakage even on the best engines under the best conditions by five years time. Some would call this normal.
Personally..... I do not tolerate leaks at all.....so if any start to leak.....I spend the hour or so it takes and just replace them.
Five years lifespan is fine....unless most of them are just pouring oil.....and in that case you should check your crankcase ventilation. Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:34 am Post subject: Re: oil leakage from oil cooler? |
|
|
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| 05gh wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| If your engine doesn't run overly hot then replacing the seals every 150-200K kilometer is probably a good idea, if the engine overheats enough to prematurely age the seals then more frequent resealing is necessary. |
I am a bit concerned the pushed type seals are replaced 5 year back. I drive approximately 5000 km / year. So that to early. It is a standard 2l injection. And all the cooling metal is in place. So what can be the cause? |
The seals "age" to a degree even if they are kept cool....but heat accelerates that. Its not just temperature. The primary characteristic is an increase in hardness/loss of flexability. It takes a slight compression set where its compressed between the head and pushrod tube.
While Viton does well checmically with motor oil.....its not a 100% bulletproof rubber. None of them are.
As it gets dirty.....your motor oil has a certain percentage of fuel in it, all kinds of waste products etc. This does not cause outright attack of Viton....but adds to the hardening process.
Since the inner end of the PR tube is a sliding joint.....compression set and hardening with age usually leaks here first.
Also keep in mind....if you have head temps that average 385°F with peaks of 400° F......depending on which type of Viton our o-rings are made of.....the constant temp range for Viton is a maximum of 400°-440° F.
While 200k miles may be quite optimistic......125k-150k is about right in my experience
Yes....its the heat cycling PRIMARILY.....and lifespans get worse if you overheat.....but from back in the days of high per year mileage and very high ambient temps.....50k per year with 50% over 100° F.....about 3 years and 150k miles was common lifespan.
Before that period.....25k miles per year and slightly lower ambient temps.....about 5 years at about the same mileage was common.
Its been my experience that there will be some slight leakage even on the best engines under the best conditions by five years time. Some would call this normal.
Personally..... I do not tolerate leaks at all.....so if any start to leak.....I spend the hour or so it takes and just replace them.
Five years lifespan is fine....unless most of them are just pouring oil.....and in that case you should check your crankcase ventilation. Ray |
150-200K kilometers equals ~100k-125k miles. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:40 am Post subject: Re: oil leakage from oil cooler? |
|
|
| Wildthings wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| 05gh wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| If your engine doesn't run overly hot then replacing the seals every 150-200K kilometer is probably a good idea, if the engine overheats enough to prematurely age the seals then more frequent resealing is necessary. |
I am a bit concerned the pushed type seals are replaced 5 year back. I drive approximately 5000 km / year. So that to early. It is a standard 2l injection. And all the cooling metal is in place. So what can be the cause? |
The seals "age" to a degree even if they are kept cool....but heat accelerates that. Its not just temperature. The primary characteristic is an increase in hardness/loss of flexability. It takes a slight compression set where its compressed between the head and pushrod tube.
While Viton does well checmically with motor oil.....its not a 100% bulletproof rubber. None of them are.
As it gets dirty.....your motor oil has a certain percentage of fuel in it, all kinds of waste products etc. This does not cause outright attack of Viton....but adds to the hardening process.
Since the inner end of the PR tube is a sliding joint.....compression set and hardening with age usually leaks here first.
Also keep in mind....if you have head temps that average 385°F with peaks of 400° F......depending on which type of Viton our o-rings are made of.....the constant temp range for Viton is a maximum of 400°-440° F.
While 200k miles may be quite optimistic......125k-150k is about right in my experience
Yes....its the heat cycling PRIMARILY.....and lifespans get worse if you overheat.....but from back in the days of high per year mileage and very high ambient temps.....50k per year with 50% over 100° F.....about 3 years and 150k miles was common lifespan.
Before that period.....25k miles per year and slightly lower ambient temps.....about 5 years at about the same mileage was common.
Its been my experience that there will be some slight leakage even on the best engines under the best conditions by five years time. Some would call this normal.
Personally..... I do not tolerate leaks at all.....so if any start to leak.....I spend the hour or so it takes and just replace them.
Five years lifespan is fine....unless most of them are just pouring oil.....and in that case you should check your crankcase ventilation. Ray |
150-200K kilometers equals ~100k-125k miles. |
 ...thank you! I had not noticed the "special k" in your post! Time for new reqding glasses dammit!
Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
05gh
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 157
Location: The Netherlands
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: oil leakage from oil cooler? |
|
|
Thanks Ray,
The oil temperature shows avarage 180F, change oil en filter every year. summertime avarage temperature is 77F. I guess i am save for the next 4 years
_________________
63 doubble door panel van
79 de luxe micro bus
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: oil leakage from oil cooler? |
|
|
| 05gh wrote: |
Thanks Ray,
The oil temperature shows avarage 180F, change oil en filter every year. summertime avarage temperature is 77F. I guess i am save for the next 4 years |
You might take a look at your method of reading oil temperature or where the temp probe is. 180* F...is just a little too low at 77 F. Even in freezing weather here...oil temps should be about 185* to right at 200* average when fully warmed up.
It would not be uncommon to never really get your oil temps up high enough in around town traffic in the winter if for some reason your like your thermostat is disconnected.
Its not great for the engine if the oil temp stays too low to evaporate water vapor that ends up in the oil during warm up. Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
05gh
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 157
Location: The Netherlands
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: oil leakage from oil cooler? |
|
|
temperature sensor connected to VDO Thermometer.
Question how to callibrate? I guess the temperature is higher then the reading of 180F
_________________
63 doubble door panel van
79 de luxe micro bus
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
