More travel for a trail baja

[craigman]

Fellas, new to the baja world. I'm building a 74 baja and would like a little more suspension travel in the rear. I plan on using a 3 rib trans. I see ads for 3x3 stuff, but seems like I've heard of 2x2, 2x3, ect, using stock bus parts, What parts are being used to do this?
I'm just trying to get a little more suspension travel and move the wheels back a little.
Thanks for any suggestions!
Craig

[veeweeman]

Just bite the bullet and get the 3x3 kit with the 930 cv's, why do it twice? ...I know that you are trying to save money and try to use the bus axles but in the end your going to spend close to the same amount. ..on the plus side you will have a trusted well known combo that has been tested and you will be much happier you spent the extra money...now, if your not sure how long you plan to keep the baja then maybe that kind of investment isn't in your budget? ...just remember that you will also have to get a wider front beam...the other downside to the 3x3 kit is that your still limited on your travel cuz of the spring plates, those will need to be notched to get the some more travel over stock, I eliminated my torsion bars for a coil over setup for 14"s of travel in the rear with 3x3's...Figure in your budget about $500 per corner for coil overs, if you chose that route...it kind of really depends on how you plan to drive your baja off road.

You will get a lot of advice in here. ..many members with way more knowledge than me. ..they will ask you for the basics;
What is your budget?
What kind of off road driving do you plan to do?

You can easily spend a lot of money on a Baja suspension and for quality parts and service, most here will agree that Appletree Automotive is the best place to get suspension kits.

Good luck with your research and remember that the more travel means more money
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[Mal evolent]

[craigman]

Thanks for the info fellas!
And yes, I'm trying to do it on the cheap. LOL I'm not new to VW's, been playing with them for 30 years, but I've never had a baja. And I totally understand about the snow ball effect.
I'm getting older and am after a softer ride. Of course it will be street driven but definitely see some off roads as well. I live in an area that's surrounded with mountains, so it will see old hunting trails and fire roads.
Thanks again for the info!

[cbeck]

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2085466
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[craigman]

Anyone know how much travel a stock IRS bug has?

[Dark Earth]

[race-desert]

and you can get 9 1/2 inches of travel in the back using all stock vw stuff from different years! then put a decent set of shocks on it(in stock location) and have a very capable trail ride ! and you won't have to cuts hole s in body or cage it if you don't want!
the below car was just a well built trail car- but it did have 9 3/4 travel at all four corners- the only non vw part was shocks..

[SamT]

Cheap budget and 3x3 won’t work. The 3x3’s change the geometry of the whole deal.
1. Torsion bars won’t work with them. (Longer lever, needs stiffer bars)
2. You have to custom fab shock mounts
3. Coil overs or air shocks. $$$
4. CVS, axles, stubs, etc $$$

You could easily spend as much as the car is worth. And then you end up with a car that still doesn’t ride good because you didn’t do the front. 3X3 rear is totally pointless with a stock front end.

I’d would just put the empi high angle bus cv’s on it, you’ll need some short axles with the bus trans, some bus to bug, thing or 944 stubs, and notch your spring plates and reinforce the arms. That will get you 10” and that’s all you can possibly need With a stock front suspension.
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[dustymojave]

[race-desert]

dusty--Just asking.... if you add droop travel- doesn't that mean you have added travel? I gained 2 1/2"+ of droop travel buy notching- and adding type 4 cv's/axles and a 8" travel shock to a shock irs-- which yes only added droop- but still compressed to the stock bumps stops just like a stock irs would! so didn't I gain travel? and I used a longer shock?

[dustymojave]

[race-desert]

correction dusty on shock length it might of been the 6"(see pic above in my post).
and yes I built the whole deal around cycling the suspension with no torsions- yes I factored in a snubber squishing by have! yes the notch in spring plate is stoping the droop travel a way before shock tops out..that car was converted to irs- no differnt that a stock irs deal.. right..
that car got double spring plates type 4 cv's, drive flanges and axles. then longer shocks.. yes the up travel did not change at full bump stop- but i gained many inches in down trave(droop) - i guess my question is-- it is still travel gained?
this was a very typical class 11 set up I thought..when they had to use stock shock mounts..

[71StandardReduction]

[race-desert]

if "havsue joe" is still around he gets couplete 924 set ups and sells them(years ago). thats where I ended up after realizing empi type 4 cvs are really only type two cv's with far less angle(proven twice by two of us)! when I got real german type 4 stuff cv's,stubs/axles and all it was a big piece of mind ..
there is also a kyb white shock that fits this bill off a ford aero star van- if interested I will dig up that part number for you! but a good shock is well worth the money! I ran the FOA for $125 apiece...

[71StandardReduction]

[oldschool5er]

You do have more travel than stock if you notched and gained droop But it is what USED to be a class 11 setup or Vintage 80's 5/1600 setup. You count hard stop to hard stop as travel. If you are running actual T4 Cv joints and have polished them you will get even more angularity out of them. So droop counts as does full compression.

That brings up the fact that Thing CV joints which are the same as T4 or 944 CV were used in a Thing torsion housing that has a different hard stop on the end casting/forging that allowed the Thing/T4 CV angularity to achieve more travel than a stock bug. In order to get full travel use of a T4 especially if you polish them, you really have no better solution than to fab new shock mounts just like Richard says and get it on top of the arm. With all the ways people try to get around that and keep trying to use the lower mount, it is just a whole lot easier to get max travel with a safety cushion and getting rid of that lower mount.

If you really don't want to move the shock position and get a longer one for the increased travel of a T4, just go C11 style all the way and buy the shocks with the upper shock mount put mid point on the long shock body so it still uses the stock torsion upper shock mount. I just think to do it right you can not avoid going through the fender well no matter how bad people want to not do that.
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[dustymojave]

[race-desert]

debating--whelp something is getting lost in translation here then! this picture below is my car (that has since been sold) and it pulled 9 3/4 inches of rear travel from jacked off the ground wheel hanging on the droop stop to jack up to compression stop-measured at the stub axle on the outside -can we agree that is more than a stock irs - and it is using stock shock locations!?and this setup did not mess/limit the point which it compression stoped on top- yes the shock got much much closer to bottoming on itself but didn't-( I did go to bus snubber to try a protect it a tad more)! so alonger shock CAN fit in there and get you more travel with this setup...Again it was built cycling arms with no torsion to get cv limits/shocks with no nitrogen, limits set to the notch i made in spring plate! 3/4 a days worth!
I know both of your names are rich in off-road racing but so is my last name in the early Barstow years just like you guys! vw must of left some room on the table for compressed shock length on a stock irs! cause like you said it is a no brainer that the body does have to get longer if the shocktravel gets longer... but this setup does work hence my point that "longer shocks" and really the only thing I am contesting here, can get you more travel on stock irs done right!
now a side note-I then built these arms (pics below) outa a stock set of plated arms which I lowered the bottom shock mount a tad and brought the shock back a tad on bottom so it would clear the arm better at full droop- which with stock arm the shock get very close to hitting arm because arm is tucking back under at full droop- as you guys know I'm sure..
fyi- I wasn't talking about the side mount class 11 shocks..

these worked great....and gave the shock the added security of not bottoming on itself as noted above which was pretty close with stock arms...

[craigman]

Race dessert, i'm listening! LOL
which parts did you use? My idea of a 3x3. I like the idea of bolt on parts and less modifications.