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markeaton Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2013 Posts: 686 Location: Seacoast NH
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:21 am Post subject: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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Gents-
I have just completed (well, by this weekend anyway) my first ever engine rebuild. Lots of great advice here for sure.
Now I would like to start it before I put back in ... at least this is what I have seen some people do.
I do not have a spare trans case to put the starter/solenoid in as part of that process. So I guess my question is:
1- is there a way to bench start it without attaching the starter to a case
2 - or, is there really any compelling reason to even bench start it; meaning why not just put back in and start it?
Thank you,
Mark |
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busman78 Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2004 Posts: 4524 Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:30 am Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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Bench starting makes easy access to the engine, adjustments, any issues you do not have to take the engine back out, more of a convenience than anything else. You pretty much need a way to mount the starter, whacked off bell housing, or the bell housing from either a 002 or 091 bus will work, the 091 will need the 091 starter, or one of those welded starter holder which scare the hell out of me. |
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markeaton Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2013 Posts: 686 Location: Seacoast NH
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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Thanks busman.... i just texted on of my other vw buddies here on the seacoast and he does not have any spare bell housing.... I might call around to junk yard. |
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turbotype1 Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2005 Posts: 583 Location: seacoast
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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PM sent..... _________________
117harv wrote: |
This new fad of get it the lowest, or run it with the worst looks, (patina) isn't cool, it's for the hey everyone look at me crowd, i'm driving a beat down ratty, unsafe, VW, how cool am I ???...your not....
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Pissing off the purists since 1997
Wanted: Boyd Motors plate frame
57 Turbo Oval Sliding rag
67 13 window delux walk-thru- now 21
64 all original for the misses
83 Sinka m-TDI diesel |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20380 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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A VW bus bellhousing is ideal for bench start..... But in absence of that just install it and keep fingers crossed.... About only adjustments you need to do during or after test run is mayb check valve lash and a fiddle a bit with carb....
With bellhousing you will need starter also, which means pulling one out of vehicle or getting "extra" one, and a battery and ground cable and a hot wire to coil....
At some point the bench start method gets a bit more complex to setup and maybe not worth the investment if it's only a one time operation...
For me, bellhousing plus starter (and cables) was $10 investment from fellow getting out of VW world.... Engine build/run stand was fabbed up out of old exercise machine pulled off scrap pile....
Total investment here maybe $20....
Personally If I did not have a good bench run setup and money may be issue, just install it in vehicle...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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markeaton Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2013 Posts: 686 Location: Seacoast NH
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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Nice set up there Dale... Something to consider (as I am taking delivery tomorrow of my next project 1973 bug sedan)... hoping to continue "collecting" ha-ha
Just connected with turbotype1 (Pete). He has graciously offered his for me to use in my test.
Thanks all ! |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31379 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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Dale M. wrote: |
For me, bellhousing plus starter (and cables) was $10 investment from fellow getting out of VW world.... Engine build/run stand was fabbed up out of old exercise machine pulled off scrap pile....
Total investment here maybe $20....
Dale |
That was a great find/bargain !!
Dale M. wrote: |
Personally If I did not have a good bench run setup and money may be issue, just install it in vehicle...
Dale |
I have built both 1600cc and 1835 engines for myself, and did not run before installing in the VW. I did crank with coil wire disconnected once installed to get oil flowing first. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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markeaton Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2013 Posts: 686 Location: Seacoast NH
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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Well just met Pete and picked up the spare housing. Great guy and great shop.
Crossing my fingers for a successful start on Saturday.
Thanks all !!! |
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turbotype1 Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2005 Posts: 583 Location: seacoast
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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Small world.... Mark works within walking distance from my shop.
Good to meet you and good luck on Saturday.... _________________
117harv wrote: |
This new fad of get it the lowest, or run it with the worst looks, (patina) isn't cool, it's for the hey everyone look at me crowd, i'm driving a beat down ratty, unsafe, VW, how cool am I ???...your not....
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Pissing off the purists since 1997
Wanted: Boyd Motors plate frame
57 Turbo Oval Sliding rag
67 13 window delux walk-thru- now 21
64 all original for the misses
83 Sinka m-TDI diesel |
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markeaton Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2013 Posts: 686 Location: Seacoast NH
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Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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Gents-
Well, I was hoping to bench start (floor start really) my 1600.
One of my co-workers had previous engagement so no-go today and might need to postpone for nearly 2 weeks.
I'm thinking I'd like to try on my own. So I wanted to know if anyone knows of a diagram that shows me how to hook up the electrical part of it, i.e battery, starter, switch, etc.
I know I needs gas to the carb and all, its just the electrical part is not my strength
Thanks,
Mark |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76940 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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Battery negative tot he case.
Battery positive to the starter
Battery positive to the positive side of the coil. There should also be a wire from the positive side of the coil to the idle shutoff and choke on the carb.
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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markeaton Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2013 Posts: 686 Location: Seacoast NH
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Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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Thank you Glenn. I will rig something up tomorrow to try it.
I did up getting the CB Performance MagnaSpark Distributor and Coil (its flat unlike the usual round ones). But it of course does have a neg and pos to it.
Thank you,
Mark |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76940 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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markeaton wrote: |
I did up getting the CB Performance MagnaSpark Distributor and Coil
,
Mark |
A bit of overkill for a stock engine.
But it will look KEWL. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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markeaton Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2013 Posts: 686 Location: Seacoast NH
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Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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Ha-ha... I think so... But Dave over there at CB has rebuild three of them and convinced me it would be a nice upgrade. This is for my 74 buggy.
Here is my next project that just got dropped off yesterday, 73 std beetle. Mostly an interior re-work.
Thanks again.
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76940 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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Does the engine have a stock 34PICT-3 carb or dual carbs? _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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markeaton Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2013 Posts: 686 Location: Seacoast NH
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Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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The one I am working on now (for my 74 dune buggy) does have a 34pic. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76940 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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markeaton wrote: |
The one I am working on now (for my 74 dune buggy) does have a 34pic. |
Get a 034 (German) vacuum/mechanical distributor. It will run much better than the CB. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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turbotype1 Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2005 Posts: 583 Location: seacoast
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Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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Glenn wrote: |
markeaton wrote: |
The one I am working on now (for my 74 dune buggy) does have a 34pic. |
Get a 034 (German) vacuum/mechanical distributor. It will run much better than the CB. |
Glen, What are you basing this on? _________________
117harv wrote: |
This new fad of get it the lowest, or run it with the worst looks, (patina) isn't cool, it's for the hey everyone look at me crowd, i'm driving a beat down ratty, unsafe, VW, how cool am I ???...your not....
|
Pissing off the purists since 1997
Wanted: Boyd Motors plate frame
57 Turbo Oval Sliding rag
67 13 window delux walk-thru- now 21
64 all original for the misses
83 Sinka m-TDI diesel |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76940 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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turbotype1 wrote: |
Glenn wrote: |
markeaton wrote: |
The one I am working on now (for my 74 dune buggy) does have a 34pic. |
Get a 034 (German) vacuum/mechanical distributor. It will run much better than the CB. |
Glen, What are you basing this on? |
34PICT-3 have a well know flat spot and was mated with a 034 (0231 170 034) vacuum/mechanical distributor from the factory.
I've personally tested a stock 1600 with a 34PICT-3 with a 009/010/019/034 and the 034 was the best choice.
Using a fancy mechanical only distributor will not give the performance of what it came with from the factory. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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markeaton Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2013 Posts: 686 Location: Seacoast NH
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:52 am Post subject: Re: Quick question - 1600cc engine bench start |
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Well, we got it to build oil pressure no problem. Tuesday night we will fuel it and turn it over.
I did have another question: I bought new gauges from CB. The oil pressure gauge I got is electric now.
I know I'm missing something (a part) and I plan to call CB today, but how do I block the oil pressure valve and check it electronically to the gauge?
Thank you,
Mark
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