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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12721 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:12 pm Post subject: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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Hi folks,
I received a few texts from KentPS that he’s on a long bus trip in the boonies, and he lost power climbing to 6k feet last night. After a few undeliverable texts and no phone calls, we’ve found out that his number 3 exhaust valve has almost a quarter inch of clearance. (Solid lifters, set to .006” normally.)
Any suggestions that I can text him as he works out a way to get his bus out f the woods (figuratively and literally) this afternoon? I’ve already speculated that if a washer or chunk of carbon was holding the valve open, similar conditions would exist, but we don’t know where to go from here with limited tools and communication. I’ll pass on any ideas I can, until he gets back into cell service and can check this thread for himself.
Thanks in advance dudes!
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
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MorkC68 Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2015 Posts: 610 Location: Nottingham, England
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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quickly thinking, is it just #3 exhaust which has the issue?
What would happen if Kent popped the rocker cover off and removed the rocker arms for that cylinder & pushrods too, see if he could get to somewhere running on three cylinders only.
I acknowledge it would misfire a lot but may give enough to limp somewhere? _________________ Major; 1977 Westfalia Campmobile
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15143 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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so I guess I'll ask..
just what section of the boonies? where in particular?
just might be someone in the vicinity _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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1. where is he at?
2. did this happen while he was driving or after the car sat all night? _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7537 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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I had a motor stick a valve recently from bad gas..
Once it was freed up, all was well..
Maybe he can feed some rope into a plug hole,
And turn the motor over (by hand),
Right as the suspect valve is supposed to be closing..??
We all dread the dropped seat,
But,
It might just be stuck??
Get going Robbie!
Hurry up!
“I’m here, where are you??”.. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12721 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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He’s at a campground outside he Grand Canyon. Dunno where, as bandwidth is limited so we’re not chit-chatting.
The ordeal came about when it wouldn’t start this morning, but he did admit to low power last night coming up in elevation. I don’t know if it was just oxygen-based power loss or valvetrain issues last night. I asked him to check the valves by hand to ensure they all clicked about the same, when he said he could get a 5mm Allen key between the valve and adjuster tip, and the adjuster wasn’t loose.
So is the concensus a stuck valve in the guide?
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51121 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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Could possibly be an ingested nut or screw stuck under the valve, not sure how I'd deal with that at a campground though. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12721 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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Audible compression test confirms one zero-compression cylinder.
I don’t want to suggest pushing the valve closed with a rope in case it’s held open by something harder than a rope...
L-Jet requires smooth airflow (luft, go figure...) so disabling one cylinder above 6,000 feet can really screw with the rest of the engine. Source: just did that at 10k feet in Breckenridge last week.
What would happen if we sprayed PB or WD at the guide and tapped it ever so lightly with a wrench or other light-but-hard tool?
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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maybe. If he can get it started, let it run 5 - 10 seconds and shut it off, wait a few minutes and try again as the head heats up - it may release the valve. I had it happen to me one morning at Idlywild with my 1971 where carbon deposits caused the valve to stick when cold. Just no reving the motor. He should look at the valve spring carefully to be sure one didn't break. If he had a propane torch I would say use that to heat the head and see if it comes back. Even a hair dryer on high powered by a generator m9ight heat the head up enough to free it. If he has a catalytic convertor it may get toasty and destroy it. I don't know what year he has. Time to use the AAA long distance tow.
That said, someone else broke down about there a few years back. There was an air cooled guy/shop in Flagstaff who helped him. I don't know if there is anyone in Williams.
You can try the carb cleaner, pb blaster or WD40 and LIGHT tapping. I don't know if that will get it. It may hang again the second the engine starts. You need heat to expand the guide if that is what it is. Otherwise it is the head cooled down and the seat came out issue. Where are you and where is Colin?
if it is a won't start thing then if his bus is carbed use a large screwdriver to hold the choke open to keep it from flooding. If it is FI remove the plug from the cold start injector. He is only at 6,000 feet so he should not have the same problems say if he was at 10,000 - 12,000 feet. Don't overlook the obvious too - more than one thing can be going on - the rubbing block can be worn too on the points.
Flagstaff thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=374764&highlight=flagstaff _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin
Last edited by SGKent on Thu May 17, 2018 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16959 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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Pull the connector off injector for the bad cylinder and have him drive it home _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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edit: photo is not him. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin
Last edited by SGKent on Thu May 17, 2018 3:29 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16959 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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A few years ago a guy named Mike dropped a seat on #3 in his 1979 bus. He drove it from Colorado to San Diego where we rebuilt his heads. Thing was, he still had low compression in that cylinder because he never removed the connector from the injector. Bus drove several hundred miles on 3 cylinders. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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aeromech wrote: |
A few years ago a guy named Mike dropped a seat on #3 in his 1979 bus. He drove it from Colorado to San Diego where we rebuilt his heads. Thing was, he still had low compression in that cylinder because he never removed the connector from the injector. Bus drove several hundred miles on 3 cylinders. |
edit: photo is not him.
Using the U-Haul website it looks like it is about $250+/- plus gas to get a small truck and car dolly in the Grand Canyon area, and tow back to Palm Springs. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin
Last edited by SGKent on Thu May 17, 2018 3:29 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16959 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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I’ve seen 2L fuel injected buses run quite well with good power on 3 cylinders before. There must be more than low compression causing it not to run _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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aeromech wrote: |
I’ve seen 2L fuel injected buses run quite well with good power on 3 cylinders before. There must be more than low compression causing it not to run |
edit: photo is not him. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin
Last edited by SGKent on Thu May 17, 2018 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16959 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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SGKent wrote: |
aeromech wrote: |
I’ve seen 2L fuel injected buses run quite well with good power on 3 cylinders before. There must be more than low compression causing it not to run |
see my post above yours. I don't think he just parked half in the road and spent the night. It looks more like he broke down there. |
Okay, then find out why it won’t run on three cylinders because it should and we’ll enough to get home on _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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andrewtf Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2011 Posts: 602 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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Robbie will chime in - but that ain't Kent or his bus in the photo.
I think that is Robbie's example of "ask me how I know" from the Breckenridge example he cited. _________________ '75 Riviera - 'BIG EMMA' (Pan American highway trip paused for a make over)
'77 Riviera - Murphy' (being reborn.... slowly)
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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Tcash wrote: |
Hold the valve in the cylinder for changing valve springs
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12721 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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Hey folks!
Yes the picture is from last week when we were stuck going up hill with no power from a non-seated hydraulic lifts adjustment. We staged the photo while the chase truck unpacked the tow rope
This time, it’s a factory 1700 build from 1973 with 1976 fuel injection feeding it except now the EGR has been disconnected for some time I believe. It passed smog last year and drove beautifully when I visited a month or two ago. Edit: no cat!
Kent says he heard a low compression cylinder during cranking, but didn’t feel it when he rotated th engine around several times by hand, noting that each cylinder had similar compression kickback to the wrench, just like last weeks valve adjustment.
Again, these are all coming across in text messages every twenty minutes or so, plus Buddy has a hot date a few counties north and I DO NOT have plans on being the next Stu
I will do my best to teach the rope technique in 140 character messages... not enough service for pictures, AND the Type 4 must use a guide to get the rope all the way down through the tin into the plug hole, so you’re limited to much smaller rope fed through a tube like a Bic pen body.
Thanks for the thoughts, stay tuned!
Robbie from Illinois _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6980 Location: Durango, CO
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