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thefinaldon
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2010
Posts: 4
Location: jackson,mississippi
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dennismcd707 
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2017
Posts: 517
Location: Burbs of Detroit
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 Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 4:13 am Post subject: Re: ....I stripped the threads in my crank. Help! |
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I appreciate the tips on getting it 'fixed', but like most of you, I think this is too important a spot to have a repair. Expensive lesson. By the way, I chose 400 pounds because of what I read on numerous threads by numerous people. Some folks want to make SUPER SURE the gland nut bolt is tight. (...but I honestly don't think I was even close to 400 lbs when it stripped)
_________________
1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta) |
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clonebug
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005
Posts: 4027
Location: NW Washington
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 6:54 am Post subject: Re: ....I stripped the threads in my crank. Help! |
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Next time torque it up in stages.
Start with 100 ft. lbs and go up in 25 or 50 ft lb increments so you can feel how the nut takes the torque.
Don't believe everything on the internet...... 
If you use a real torque wrench you can feel the torque better than through that torque teaser tool. 
_________________
| vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
| Paul.H wrote: |
| That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
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http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:16 am Post subject: Re: ....I stripped the threads in my crank. Help! |
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buy a forged crank....
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drive your split. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76897
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:28 am Post subject: Re: ....I stripped the threads in my crank. Help! |
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| sled wrote: |
| buy a forged crank.... |
Just proves trying to save money isn't always the cheapest option... in the long run.
For $100 more you won't be in this situation.
Replacing the damaged crank with a new forged requires a complete tear down = $$$$$
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3594
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 10:02 am Post subject: Re: ....I stripped the threads in my crank. Help! |
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Unfortunately there are far too many suppliers that sell stuff that should not exist. The first that comes to mind are 1.25 stock style rockers and counter weighted cast cranks, I would rather use a OG VW stock used non-counter weighted crank. If everybody would not give these parts any support on the retailer and consumer ends maybe these parts would go away.
Also some of these suppliers sell some very good exclusive to them parts, stuff which makes it hard for me to not buy the good stuff when I say to myself I should not support them because of what they are doing.
Any ideas about how to solve this junk parts problem? People should not have to learn this expensive lesson the hard way. Yes he over torqued it but did the crank come with instructions warning about this, Probably not. A OG vw crank would not have done this.
Selling parts without instructions is inexcusable.
Dan |
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67rustavenger
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9754
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:46 am Post subject: Re: ....I stripped the threads in my crank. Help! |
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I'm gonna speculate that the damage was not from torquing the flywheel. Yea the issue surfaced then. But likely happened when setting the front seal with the tool shown in the image above.
The backside is not grooved to clear the flywheel dowel pins. So the tool came to rest on the pins and while attempting to get the seal to the correct depth. It started pulling the threads on the crankshaft.
That's a cheap tool that, I too recently purchased and found to be completely useless once it contacted the dowel pins. The seal stuck up above the case and I had to finesse it to the proper recess.
There is a better and more expensive tool for this and the next time I build an engine I'll buy the proper tool for the job. It may cost more for the tool, but it's way cheaper than a crackshaft.
This is a tough lesson to learn. And some tough love from your fellow sambinista's. We all make mistakes and sometimes when new or refreshing our engine building skills. We learn hard lessons.
I messed up a brand new camshaft recently and punished myself by buying a new one as a hard lesson to myself.
Regarding instructions for purchased engine parts. I can only assume that the manufacturers assume that you have an engine building manual and know how to use it to your advantage. I know that very few of the parts from my recent engine build came with instructions. Like the Rings, Camshaft, and Pistons. Everything else had the installation instructions in the Bentely and How to Hot Rod your VW manuals.
Keep you chin up and learn from this episode of engine building. I'm sure that you are not going to forget this lesson anytime soon.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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VW_Jimbo
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9950
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: ....I stripped the threads in my crank. Help! |
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| Keep you chin up and learn from this episode of engine building. I'm sure that you are not going to forget this lesson anytime soon. |
Not part of this discussion, but I needed to read that right now! Thanks man!
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
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67rustavenger
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9754
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: ....I stripped the threads in my crank. Help! |
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| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| Keep you chin up and learn from this episode of engine building. I'm sure that you are not going to forget this lesson anytime soon. |
Not part of this discussion, but I needed to read that right now! Thanks man! |
You too VW_Jimbo! Keep your spirits right and work through the problem.
I have my own frustrations with my latest build that I'm working through.
I know it can be difficult at times when it was so easy in the past.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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dennismcd707
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2017
Posts: 517
Location: Burbs of Detroit
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: ....I stripped the threads in my crank. Help! |
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.....thanks for the kind words of wisdom. You're right, I used that tool, but I knew about the dowels and stopped when it stopped. Then I removed it with a chuckle (well, it got the seal started anyways), and proceeded to tap it in the rest of the way with a block of wood.
And you're also right about this statement: "it can be difficult at times when it was so easy in the past"
And lastly, I just purchased a new crankshaft (forged) from Mofoco. This way at least I know that somebody here in the states did a final tolerance check with a micrometer before it was shipped to me, and Roy says he does, so I have to give 'em a chance! Plus, it would be nice to have my new crank arrive already in tolerance for a change. I had a problem with an Empi crank a couple of months ago. ...... God I have bad luck with cranks. First my Empi crank, then I stripped my Scat. Hopefully, third time's a charm..........or something like that. :2gunfire: 
_________________
1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta) |
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earthquake
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008
Posts: 3984
Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: ....I stripped the threads in my crank. Help! |
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Do they make helicoils that big?
Casey
_________________
74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
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FeelthySanchez
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2011
Posts: 1349
Location: Now is that a real poncho, or a Sears poncho?
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: ....I stripped the threads in my crank. Help! |
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Yep. They should combine it w/ a cheap tap & peddle the kit.
| Danwvw wrote: |
| Now we know why Scat makes the longer gland nuts. |
_________________
| modok wrote: |
| I would like if you had enough clue to communicate what you are doing. |
| Ryan Tucker wrote: |
| Enough clue..Whats that mean? |
| OldIronSpine wrote: |
I'm not sure how compression works.
Turbos don't produce torque, they produce HP. Instead of torque.
The real problem with NA engines is you don't hear the nice whine of the turbo as it spools up.
Before I commit, I'm going to do more research because I don't really know what piston rings are. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26777
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: ....I stripped the threads in my crank. Help! |
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On the one hand, the dowels/big bolt design is a weak spot, and we have seen it break/strip/beat apart.... every way you can imagine.
On the other hand, a LARGE number of mexican made VW engines, and aftermarket, have cast cranks and flywheels, and there are very few complaints specifically with those.
At this point there are MANY different kinds of crank, gland nuts, and flywheels. Different combinations DO need different torques. |
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FreeBug
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 12:19 am Post subject: Re: ....I stripped the threads in my crank. Help! |
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| Dan Ruddock wrote: |
| Unfortunately there are far too many suppliers that sell stuff that should not exist. The first that comes to mind are 1.25 stock style rockers |
But then how would you mix and match 1.25 and 1.1 rockers on the same shaft?  maybe someone should make 1.1 :1 and maybe even 1.0:1 size Berg style rockers... |
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earthquake
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008
Posts: 3984
Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: ....I stripped the threads in my crank. Help! |
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I wonder if you could drill and tap the the dowel pin holes and use bolts and find a roller bearing for the input shaft that would fit the flywheel
Casey
_________________
74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8501
Location: PNW
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Fender38
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2015
Posts: 75
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3594
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: ....I stripped the threads in my crank. Help! |
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You can do that with a good forged steel crank as long as you see the GN grabs plenty of the threads. I have seen many cast cranks with the threads pulled out. Maybe John needs specify 400lbs with a forged crank.
Cast cranks are a paper weight brand new. I also will never buy any crank with the dowels installed. Match doweling is the only way to insure the flywheel will stay put for the long haul. Rev-master and some of the scats cranks are sold this way. I went with a DPR and told Jose don't install dowel pins, I had Berg match dowel it. Andy klink's race car is not wedge mated.
Dan |
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Fender38
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2015
Posts: 75
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: ....I stripped the threads in my crank. Help! |
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| Dan Ruddock wrote: |
You can do that with a good forged steel crank as long as you see the GN grabs plenty of the threads. I have seen many cast cranks with the threads pulled out. Maybe John needs specify 400lbs with a forged crank.
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I agree, the implication is mostly likely that it would be used with a forged crank. But like you said, it's not specified. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31360
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: ....I stripped the threads in my crank. Help! |
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I just installed this new gland nut into my 1970, with its new MoFoCo transmission, in April. No - I did not torque to 400 ft lbs, just the regular VW torque. And it works fine.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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