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Bret Young Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2006 Posts: 756 Location: Turlock, CA
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:44 am Post subject: Oil Spraying Behind Crank Pulley |
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Hi All,
Facing a problem and looking for some advice/help. My motor has about 5500-6000 miles on it and it is spraying an oil mist out from behind the crank pulley and coating everything in my motor with motor oil.
Details on the motor:
82x94
DPR Crank/CB H-Beams/Wiseco Pistons
Web 86B
Tims Stg 2 Heads
The motor is fuel injected with crank trigger ignition so I am venting the case from both the distributor and fuel pump holes on the case with AN-8 lines directly to a Gene Berg breather box on the alternator stand. I have a Gene Berg Equalizer pulley on the motor and it is slinging oil everywhere.
Called Berg for their advice and they stated that they do not suggest people run 94mm pistons on street motor due to blow-by issues. Other than that, they stated they could not help me with advice that.
So I am extending my question to you guys to maybe give suggestions. Maybe I have a ring/sealing problem and need to do a compression/leak down test? Any thoughts?
Last edited by Bret Young on Mon May 21, 2018 2:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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UK Luke 72 Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011 Posts: 2867 Location: Little Britain
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Bret Young Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2006 Posts: 756 Location: Turlock, CA
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Oil Spraying Behind Crank Pulley |
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UK Luke 72 wrote: |
They're talking out their arse (again :roll: )
Does the pulley have the spiral grooves on the hub to channel oil back into the case? |
Yes. The pulley has the spiral grooves on the backside of the pulley that mates to the crankshaft. And the case was not cut for sand seal.
UK Luke 72 wrote: |
A leakdown test will tell you if you do actually have a ring sealing issue :) |
I figured I would ask and see if there was anything I could try before taking off the throttle bodies and manifolds to perform a leak down test. Wishful thinking! |
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UK Luke 72 Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011 Posts: 2867 Location: Little Britain
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7374
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Oil Spraying Behind Crank Pulley |
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Check oil level. Maybe time to change to a bolt in sand seal pulley-I had a Scat Alum pulley break at the hub and I did not catch it soon enough and it wore the case opening at the pulley. The only option was a sand seal or have Rimco re-weld the case snout.
Last edited by 74 Thing on Mon May 21, 2018 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3574 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Oil Spraying Behind Crank Pulley |
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Has the case been line bored? If the pulley is not centered with the case bore this can cause oil not to return back into case. I built a 94mm engine that had blow by problems. At what mileage did this start happening?
Dan |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3574 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Oil Spraying Behind Crank Pulley |
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Has the case been line bored? If the pulley is not centered with the case bore this can cause oil not to return back into case. I built a 94mm engine that had blow by problems. At what mileage did this start happening?
Dan |
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Bret Young Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2006 Posts: 756 Location: Turlock, CA
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Oil Spraying Behind Crank Pulley |
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UK Luke 72 wrote: |
The rings should've seated long ago, did you build the motor? You had it since new? Might be a case of bad break in, glazed up. |
I had the motor built for me.
74 Thing wrote: |
Check oil level. Maybe time to change to a bolt in sand seal pulley-I had a Scat Alum pulley break at the hub and I did not catch it soon enough and it wore the case opening at the pulley. The only option was a sand seal or have Rimco re-weld the case snout. |
The oil level is not over-filled if that is what you mean. But I do get to keep adding more oil into the motor as it sprays it out the back side of the pulley. I can pull the pulley off to inspect, but mine is not aluminum, but a heavy chunk of steel.
Dan Ruddock wrote: |
Has the case been line bored? If the pulley is not centered with the case bore this can cause oil not to return back into case. I built a 94mm engine that had blow by problems. At what mileage did this start happening? |
Yes. The case was machined by Brothers down in SoCal. It was only noticeable about 1500-2000 miles ago. For the most part, its not super noticeable when I am driving around town, but those trips are typically short. Might get a light mist if I have my foot in it, but on long trips on the freeway, it gets oil everywhere. Inside of the decklid is covered, entire engine, decklid seal, etc. I have made three long trips in the past month or so (3 hour round trip, 5 hour round trip and a 8 hour round trip), so its becoming much more noticeable now than it was just driving it to run an occasional errand. |
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UK Luke 72 Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011 Posts: 2867 Location: Little Britain
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Oil Spraying Behind Crank Pulley |
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Does sound like a lot of blowby, don't be fooled into thinking its because of the 94s though. My dad had a 1600 with blowby, cylinders were warped from the top head nuts coming loose... That being said, I don't doubt 94s are perhaps slightly more susceptible to blowby if any details are missed.
The 94s should hold up well in a bug if set up well and cleaned, ring gaps, oiled, and broken in...
What are the chances of it leaning out when tuning the EFI? maybe broken ring/land or something? Air filtration up to scratch?
All speculative really, needs a leakdown. _________________ 2276 Beetle build https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=670744&highlight=2276+beetle+daily
2276 EFI Conversion https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=689172 |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Oil Spraying Behind Crank Pulley |
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Maybe it is bad blowby from the 94's and rings. Only way to know for sure is do a compression test and a leak down test.
What brand P&C's did you use?
What brand of rings? _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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GARRICK.CLARK Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2012 Posts: 1267 Location: Lancashire UK
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Oil Spraying Behind Crank Pulley |
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I had this last week. It was a burr on the O.G pulley. The previous owner had used a pair of pry bars to get pulley off which damaged the pulley enough to produce a BURR. It machined the case hole bigger allowing oil to leak. I measured the pulley with digital calipers and measured the case hole to confirm . A sand seal pulley fixed it. Had to remove the oil pump and loosen the front case half bolts to fit the sand seal hub. |
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jpaull Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3456 Location: Paradise, Ca
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Oil Spraying Behind Crank Pulley |
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There has to be a lot of 2276's out there that are not slinging oil all over the place. That being said, I had a thin wall 2180 do the same thing. I did a bolt-on sand seal and kept driving/racing. I did not do a leak-down but with 160psi I kept racing till the next tear down.
Combine increased case pressure of stroker crank with any cylinder sealing issues and its recipe for oil mist out the crank pulley.
I hear those heavy berg pulleys fetch good numbers at the local recycler, just a option.... |
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GARRICK.CLARK Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2012 Posts: 1267 Location: Lancashire UK
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Oil Spraying Behind Crank Pulley |
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JPAULL is right about it could be blow by. On this motor I thought it was blow by too. I tried extra breathers etc, even removing the oil cap and driving it for a while. In the end it was the pulley. |
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Bret Young Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2006 Posts: 756 Location: Turlock, CA
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Oil Spraying Behind Crank Pulley |
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vwracerdave wrote: |
Maybe it is bad blowby from the 94's and rings. Only way to know for sure is do a compression test and a leak down test.
What brand P&C's did you use?
What brand of rings? |
Wiseco pistons. To my knowledge, the rings that came with the Wiseco pistons. AA Cylinders.
jpaull wrote: |
There has to be a lot of 2276's out there that are not slinging oil all over the place. That being said, I had a thin wall 2180 do the same thing. I did a bolt-on sand seal and kept driving/racing. I did not do a leak-down but with 160psi I kept racing till the next tear down.
Combine increased case pressure of stroker crank with any cylinder sealing issues and its recipe for oil mist out the crank pulley.
I hear those heavy berg pulleys fetch good numbers at the local recycler, just a option.... |
I'm not stating that its something that all big motors do. I know this is something up with my motor specifically. Guess its time for a compression/leak down test to investigate further.
I would consider swapping out the pulley for another one if my crank trigger wheel wasn't welded to the backside of it. But I wouldn't mind switching over to a lighter smaller pulley. I don't think the big heavy hunk of steel is helping anything. |
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earthquake Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008 Posts: 3984 Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Spraying Behind Crank Pulley |
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Are the nuts tight on the oil pump? is it full flowed and are the fittings tight?
Casey _________________ 74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
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DEATH TO CHINGERS!
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UK Luke 72 Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011 Posts: 2867 Location: Little Britain
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bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Spraying Behind Crank Pulley |
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Need a pic of your engine compartment. Sometimes just your written breather box details aren't enough. |
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Bret Young Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2006 Posts: 756 Location: Turlock, CA
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Spraying Behind Crank Pulley |
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bugguy1967 wrote: |
Need a pic of your engine compartment. Sometimes just your written breather box details aren't enough. |
Berg Smooth Alternator Breather Box with Vented Cap
2 AN-8 fittings welded on backside
Both hoses from the engine case vented directly to the breather box.
Let me know if you need any additional photos. |
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Dark Earth Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015 Posts: 1054
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Spraying Behind Crank Pulley |
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Bret Young wrote: |
Berg Smooth Alternator Breather Box with Vented Cap
2 AN-8 fittings welded on backside
Both hoses from the engine case vented directly to the breather box.
Let me know if you need any additional photos. |
Bret Young wrote: |
Yes. The pulley has the spiral grooves on the backside of the pulley that mates to the crankshaft. And the case was not cut for sand seal. |
I would try running a hose from the top of the right side air cleaner to the breather box. Crankshaft pulley's with grooves also need some vacuum to scavenge the crankcase of pressure. Obviously if it's spitting oil out of the breather you wouldn't want to do that. _________________ My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~ |
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Dauz Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010 Posts: 1790
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Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Oil Spraying Behind Crank Pulley |
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Blow-by = oil coming out of the top end, burnt in the cylinders (blue smoke), and loss of compression. I'm no stranger to blow-by after cracking ring landings over the years due to inadequate fuel and disconnected wastegates.
Last time I had an issue with oil coming out from behind the pulley (no sand seal), I changed the pulley (Empi -> Bugpack) and it went away. IIRC, I mic'd the spiral ends and the Empi was slightly smaller in diameter. |
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