I need some opinions regarding engine rebuild or swap

[Windex_]

Hey guys,

Last week while getting on the freeway I lost 100% oil pressure, I got the van shut off rather quickly since my oil pressure light is the size of a small moon, and had the van towed to the shop.

The shop checked the oil pressure relief valve and the oil pump, both are fine.
Friday he suggested the only other thing that could have caused that would have been the oil pick-up tube breaking and said in order to fix that he would have to pull the engine and split the cases. He didn't twist my arm about rebuilding it, but if its out and apart why wouldn't you.

Well, he gave me the price to do the rebuild and at nearly $6,000, it's steep. He did tell me that to pull the old engine and swap a long block it would cost me around 2k.

I looked into Bostig, but not surprisingly they're out of stock and preorders are closed. Vanistan stopped building engines. I wont spend the 10k-12k to do a Subaru swap. I should mention, the van is my only vehicle so time isn't exactly on my side.

I'm basically torn on whether to have him rebuild my engine or just hop in the car tomorrow and go get a GoWesty engine. The reason I am torn, is because I have read of people who had nothing but problems with their GW engines.

My mechanic offers a 12 month, 12,000 mile warranty on his rebuilds. GoWesty offering 48 months 48,000 miles seems enticing. Also, I don't know if this is true or just in my mind, but being able to say if I ever decide to sell it "its got a GoWesty 2.3" seems more confidence inspiring than "yeah, its got an engine rebuilt by some guy named Jimmy."

Are there others out there who build great WBX engines that I'm just not aware of?

What would you guys do?

Thanks,
Jonnie

[?Waldo?]

Did you or the shop install a test gauge to confirm that you have no oil pressure?

[Windex_]

[MarkWard]

Zero oil pressure is not common. Even if you had a connecting rod fail. I would not be so quick to condemn this engine. How did they check the oil pump? It's possible, but the tang of the oil pump that slips into the camshaft could have broken. Engines just don't instantly loose oil pressure.

As far as a rebuild goes. I would compare the warranty GW offers vs Jimmy. I believe if you are on a road trip and the engine has a warranty problem, GW will work with you and the shop you had it towed to. Jimmy probably not.

I would be cutting open the oil filter looking for bearing material. If the oil pump failed, you'd damage the bottom end pretty quickly. Unfortunately, there is not an easy way to check the oil pump function that I can think of. You need to remove a lot of external parts to access the oil pump cover, but way less labor than swapping in an engine.
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[Windex_]

[ELO78]

[Windex_]

[danfromsyr]

iirc a bostig isn't legal in california.

and fwiw a Subaru swap isn't "just another engine"
it's TRANS-FORMATIVE

but if the wallet says no, then well that's that..

many people are happy 'enough' with a rebuilt fresh 2.1~2.3
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[Windex_]

[Zeitgeist 13]

I regularly service a Multivan with an RJE 2.3L and it's a lot of fun, but it wasn't cheap or a quick turnaround.

Since you're in a hurry and GW is fairly local, I think it makes the most sense to go with them and get the rig back on the road ASAP. Having said that, I'm with the others in questioning whether your engine is indeed fully and completely dead. Was there any rattling of the lifters when it was running last?
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[MarkWard]

The sump either fell off into the case or it is plugged with crud. Jimmy is correct, that you can't access the sump without splitting the case. That said, if it is plugged with crud, you could use compressed air to blow the crud out while the oil pump is removed. If the sump fell off, you could overfill the case with oil and the oil pump should pick it up. Both suggestions are labor intensive that if something changes, you need to split the case anyhow.

Not telling what Jimmy will find, but the van could be down for quite a while getting parts, machining etc. A long block could be swapped in over a couple days and you'd be back on the road.
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[bobbyblack]

Personally, I like the idea that you can just drive to GW and get an engine. I am not 100% sure that is actually how it works, but I guy can dream....

Here is what you could find out when you get Jimmy's suggested Long Block:

Your exhaust is a bit crusty, and a few of the bolts and nuts just went to hell when Jimmy had his air hammer torque driver spin them off. The hardest to find part will be the one that is the worst, and then you will start wondering how much a 4-2-1 SS exhaust is going to come to. Don't forget you'll get a NEW CAT/Muff too...

Your coolant pipe that runs from your water pump back to the plastic gizmo with your t-stat is corroded, and that t-stat housing broke when Jimmy gave it a little too much verve. Solution here is the aluminum t-stat housing, and a new metal coolant pipe, so add some $'s for that too. And, since your are in that far, be super certain to look at the coolant lines that go from engine up to the radiator. There can be corrosion only visible when the rubber coolant lines have come off.

How long since you got your throttle body repaired, or replaced? New TPS? AFM been serviced? How about those old fuel injectors? Did you get the 1:1.25 bolt on rockers for that GW22?

You're not forgetting the core deposit, are you? What happens when GW gets your core and says, this is toast, dude!

All of this will get you back in your van, and at best, the new exhaust + extra 100 cc's of engine may have given you 10 more horses...

BTW, how does that transmission drain plug magnet look?

Now, how much was that Subi swap going to be again?
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[IdahoDoug]

Wait, wait. I agree don't give up on this engine yet. Oil pump confirmed intact means its not responsible for the zero pressure. Sorry for being a pessimist but I'd have gone to the shop to see the engine startup with mechanical guage showing me zero. Too late for that.

I agree its down to the oil sump. Welcome to 2018 folks - where ya been? For $75 I have a color LCD borescope-like camera that I can thread in the oil port on the engine's right rear and look at my oil sump pickup. Tell Jimmy to get with the times - doesn't he have a borescope? You have the engine stripped partway or perhaps with the oil pump off you are there. It's like walking around in someone's house.

Take a look. If the pickup fell off, then sure I understand. But something else is wrong here including Jimmy's diagnostic. Did he REALLY put an oil guage on it? Why don't you slide under with a bright light and if you see dust still on the oil sender as if its never been untouched, I'd be pissed....

Also I'd want to see the oil that came out and the filter. Don't let Jimmy throw all that out!!!!!!!! If he did, he's a scammer.

PS - Wow, when did I become such a loudmouth skeptic about mechanics? Apologies to the many, many good ones out there!
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[hdenter]

Well, I would agree with the others in that I would want to know exactly why my engine lost pressure before proceeding. I'd want to know if it could be fixed and I'd want to know, before I sent it off, if was a rebuildable core.

The only legal engine swaps available in CA are the Suby 2.2 and the 1.8T, neither of which is cheap unless you do it yourself. The most affordable thing to do(if your engine is toast) is a GW rebuild off the shelf. If you do the 2.3, you'll have arguably better performance than the Suby 2.2. If you want to spend the money, I hear the 1.8t from SAH is amazing.

Hans
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'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender

[jberger]

Have the shop pull the oil pump.. My guess is the drive tang rounded off. I pulled a leaky pump for a friend's repair some years ago and it was ALMOST rounded.. found that time bomb before anything bad happened. New pump and good to go.

J

[SSWesty]

How do you know the engine lost oil pressure? Did the stock dash light come on or do you have a gauge? Either way it would be good to test an alternative way to prove that the oil pressure is truly low. A couple more engine options would be Bus Depot and a shop up here in Seattle, https://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/ptd/d/deluxe-rebuilt-21-vw-vanagon/6587332505.html I have no experience with the Seattle shop other than seeing the ad year over year, looks like they do a basic rebuild.

Good luck!

[levi]

Since no one else mentioned it, and I am in Vegas of course, so I have to at least consider the gamblers option.
Folks convert even when their existing engine is ok.
I did.
100 miles north of you Seth has (or at least had a shop ?)
Maybe a used engine could be had in the 500-1,000 range.
It would be cheap and quick anyway.
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[Wildthings]

I would certainly consider buying an engine that has been pulled to do a swap. If you can drive it before it is pulled so much the better. I bought to 2.1L engines for less than a grand total, the one is now in my 83 1/2 POS and I have put over 10,000 miles on it and the other is going to go into an '87 I have sitting in the yard.

[Ahwahnee]

[Wildthings]

FWIW, if you actually lost oil pressure, it would have been hard to get it shut off fast enough to not damage/seize the bearings, plus I believe the oil level in a WBXer engine is high enough that the engine should make oil pressure with the pickup tube missing.

Another possibility is that the driven shaft in the oil pump spun in the gear. Maybe press the shaft out of the gear and see what it looks like.

If you remove the oil filter and crank the engine over or just turn the engine over by hand does oil flow out? It should.