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Big_E_Deluxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2013
Posts: 264
Location: Charlotte, NC
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 Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 10:13 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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| Rome wrote: |
Very impressive! Perfect stance. Do you have a video of the engine running so we can hear the sound of the vintage outlaw power? You could honestly get away with a "1400 SUPER" badge due to the actual displacement.  |
Thank you!
I thought of that, 1400 SUPER, and may do it in the future. The idea was to show were it came from....it's origins.
_________________
Erik
1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
2014 Porsche 991.1 Carrera S
Last edited by Big_E_Deluxe on Wed May 30, 2018 5:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Big_E_Deluxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2013
Posts: 264
Location: Charlotte, NC
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Big_E_Deluxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2013
Posts: 264
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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Final engine assembly and metal work by Colby @ Monkey Nut VW.
Items that have been replaced since pictures.....ISP OT pulley and Speedwell valve covers. Pulley replaced with a Speedwell "Denzel" pulley and valve covers changed to VW 36hp vented covers. ISP pulley may have contributed to small oil leak at seal, but not certain. Speedwell pulley has the same dimensions as stock pulley, ISP does not. Vented valve covers were added to solve leak at pulley as well. Balanced and welded fan by Jason Eggum (Samba member).
_________________
Erik
1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
2014 Porsche 991.1 Carrera S
Last edited by Big_E_Deluxe on Wed May 30, 2018 5:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69802
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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| Big_E_Deluxe wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
Wow, super nice car!
| Big_E_Deluxe wrote: |
| Rear castle nut needs to be a early Porsche to clear teeth on rear axle. |
I'm not sure what is different, could you explain it further?
Is it shorter in length or ? |
Everett, Thank you!
From what I've read and learned during the install is that the rear 356B drum does not cover all the axle teeth like a stock VW drum, a small portion is exposed. From what I understand, early Porsche 356's used VW axles, so Porsche needed a different castle nut that had a beveled area on the back side of the nut to clear the exposed teeth. I believe it also has a larger outer diameter too. This would allow the nut to seat properly on the drum and not torque down on the teeth. You can use a VW castle nut, but you'll need a washer, not ideal. I'm not an expert, please let me know if I have this incorrect. So far it is working properly.
Here's a Porsche castle nut......
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Got it - I understand perfectly now.
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fl59bug
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005
Posts: 1976
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:10 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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Wow I see (I think) that in order to run the 69.5 crank you have to do some rework of the cylinder and engine tins. I never considered this.
Beautiful car btw! |
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Big_E_Deluxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2013
Posts: 264
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:13 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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| fl59bug wrote: |
Wow I see (I think) that in order to run the 69.5 crank you have to do some rework of the cylinder and engine tins. I never considered this.
Beautiful car btw! |
Thank you!
Yes, there was a little bit of tweaking needed to make them fit right. I don't know if this is always the case though.
_________________
Erik
1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
2014 Porsche 991.1 Carrera S |
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gimmesomeshelter
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2004
Posts: 1466
Location: San Carlos, CA
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:48 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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How do you like the Pirelli tires? A dealer in England claims that they're very good if you like to do a lot of twists and turns.
Cheers,
Paul
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Big_E_Deluxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2013
Posts: 264
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 8:26 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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| gimmesomeshelter wrote: |
How do you like the Pirelli tires? A dealer in England claims that they're very good if you like to do a lot of twists and turns.
Cheers,
Paul |
Hi Paul,
I don't know yet, it's still in the shop getting the last few things resolved. Haven't driven it since we started outlaw project. I plan to give reviews on as much as possible (engine, brakes, tires, etc...).
There is a dealer in CA that sells the CN36's.
Lucas Classic Tires: https://www.lucasclassictires.com/
_________________
Erik
1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
2014 Porsche 991.1 Carrera S |
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PeteSC
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 881
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 11:24 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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| fl59bug wrote: |
| Wow I see (I think) that in order to run the 69.5 crank you have to do some rework of the cylinder and engine tins. I never considered this. |
Not sure I'm following you; I think his tin mods were to clearance for the Okrasa-style dual port intakes and to fill the heat riser openings in the breast plate, neither due to the stroker crank. On the shroud they probably filled the wire clip holes, choke hole, repositioned the coil mount, etc. |
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fl59bug
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005
Posts: 1976
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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| PeteSC wrote: |
| fl59bug wrote: |
| Wow I see (I think) that in order to run the 69.5 crank you have to do some rework of the cylinder and engine tins. I never considered this. |
Not sure I'm following you; I think his tin mods were to clearance for the Okrasa-style dual port intakes and to fill the heat riser openings in the breast plate, neither due to the stroker crank. On the shroud they probably filled the wire clip holes, choke hole, repositioned the coil mount, etc. |
Ok, sorry for my confusion there - I guess the increased stroke really only amounts to around 2 tenths of an inch, not enough to make the engine that much significantly wider to where the original tins would need to be "lengthened" 
I thought at first it looked in the pictures like the cylinder cover seams were rewelded further away from the outboard edge. Makes sense though that the reworking is due to the manifolds and head dual port openings. |
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Big_E_Deluxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2013
Posts: 264
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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| fl59bug wrote: |
| PeteSC wrote: |
| fl59bug wrote: |
| Wow I see (I think) that in order to run the 69.5 crank you have to do some rework of the cylinder and engine tins. I never considered this. |
Not sure I'm following you; I think his tin mods were to clearance for the Okrasa-style dual port intakes and to fill the heat riser openings in the breast plate, neither due to the stroker crank. On the shroud they probably filled the wire clip holes, choke hole, repositioned the coil mount, etc. |
Ok, sorry for my confusion there - I guess the increased stroke really only amounts to around 2 tenths of an inch, not enough to make the engine that much significantly wider to where the original tins would need to be "lengthened"
I thought at first it looked in the pictures like the cylinder cover seams were rewelded further away from the outboard edge. Makes sense though that the reworking is due to the manifolds and head dual port openings. |
Actually I believe you're both correct. Pete, when Joe built my long block he installed custom barrel spacers for the 80mm P/C's to get the proper deck height. These barrel spacers push the heads outward a little, not much. Not sure if he had to do this on your long block or not. I think it's possible to leave the cylinder tins as is, but the guys at Monkey Nut VW wanted a nice tight fit for good airflow. Also, I do remember needing to verify exhaust port spacing from left to right so the exhaust would fit, because the heads moved outwards. I will confirm.
_________________
Erik
1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
2014 Porsche 991.1 Carrera S |
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mkbug
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2004
Posts: 145
Location: Northern California
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PeteSC
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 881
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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| Big_E_Deluxe wrote: |
| fl59bug wrote: |
| PeteSC wrote: |
| fl59bug wrote: |
| Wow I see (I think) that in order to run the 69.5 crank you have to do some rework of the cylinder and engine tins. I never considered this. |
Not sure I'm following you; I think his tin mods were to clearance for the Okrasa-style dual port intakes and to fill the heat riser openings in the breast plate, neither due to the stroker crank. On the shroud they probably filled the wire clip holes, choke hole, repositioned the coil mount, etc. |
Ok, sorry for my confusion there - I guess the increased stroke really only amounts to around 2 tenths of an inch, not enough to make the engine that much significantly wider to where the original tins would need to be "lengthened"
I thought at first it looked in the pictures like the cylinder cover seams were rewelded further away from the outboard edge. Makes sense though that the reworking is due to the manifolds and head dual port openings. |
Actually I believe you're both correct. Pete, when Joe built my long block he installed custom barrel spacers for the 80mm P/C's to get the proper deck height. These barrel spacers push the heads outward a little, not much. Not sure if he had to do this on your long block or not. I think it's possible to leave the cylinder tins as is, but the guys at Monkey Nut VW wanted a nice tight fit for good airflow. Also, I do remember needing to verify exhaust port spacing from left to right so the exhaust would fit, because the heads moved outwards. I will confirm. |
I understand now. When discussing my engine build with Joe I recall him mentioning his combinations NOT making the engine wider, but to be honest now I’m not sure if he was talking about the 80 x 69.5 or his 1500 80 x 74 (and his preference for Porsche crank/rods/pistons over DPR modified crank, H beam rods, etc). It probably was the later combo he was touting as not “growing” the engine. FWIW I don’t think Franz has added any width to my tin setup. I think the VS exhaust I have for it is advertised as having .2” adjustment for striker motors.
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9638
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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Such clean work on the engine and tins!
Did Joe machine (spot-face) the right case perimeter to fit large-head M8 nuts and thick washers, like the GeneBerg modification on later cases? |
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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Very nice. Absolutely love the look. Exactly what I’d like for my 64.
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1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
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Big_E_Deluxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2013
Posts: 264
Location: Charlotte, NC
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Big_E_Deluxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2013
Posts: 264
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:49 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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| PeteSC wrote: |
I understand now. When discussing my engine build with Joe I recall him mentioning his combinations NOT making the engine wider, but to be honest now I’m not sure if he was talking about the 80 x 69.5 or his 1500 80 x 74 (and his preference for Porsche crank/rods/pistons over DPR modified crank, H beam rods, etc). It probably was the later combo he was touting as not “growing” the engine. FWIW I don’t think Franz has added any width to my tin setup. I think the VS exhaust I have for it is advertised as having .2” adjustment for striker motors.
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Pete, your engine is looking great! Engine tin fitment is perfect. I want to do my carb setup bad, but I don't want to leave the 58 in the shop any longer, haha.
I wish I knew the answer to this question, maybe Joe or Colby will post up with the correct answer in the future. I definitely don't what to give the wrong info. Engine building is not my expertise, far from it.
_________________
Erik
1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
2014 Porsche 991.1 Carrera S
Last edited by Big_E_Deluxe on Thu May 31, 2018 5:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Big_E_Deluxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2013
Posts: 264
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:54 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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| Rome wrote: |
Such clean work on the engine and tins!
Did Joe machine (spot-face) the right case perimeter to fit large-head M8 nuts and thick washers, like the GeneBerg modification on later cases? |
Sorry Rome, I don't know the answer to this question. Hoping Joe will jump on here at some point and answer some of these questions. It's funny how much I've learned during the engine build process, but still don't know the half of it.
_________________
Erik
1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
2014 Porsche 991.1 Carrera S |
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VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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| PeteSC wrote: |
| Big_E_Deluxe wrote: |
| fl59bug wrote: |
| PeteSC wrote: |
| fl59bug wrote: |
| Wow I see (I think) that in order to run the 69.5 crank you have to do some rework of the cylinder and engine tins. I never considered this. |
Not sure I'm following you; I think his tin mods were to clearance for the Okrasa-style dual port intakes and to fill the heat riser openings in the breast plate, neither due to the stroker crank. On the shroud they probably filled the wire clip holes, choke hole, repositioned the coil mount, etc. |
Ok, sorry for my confusion there - I guess the increased stroke really only amounts to around 2 tenths of an inch, not enough to make the engine that much significantly wider to where the original tins would need to be "lengthened"
I thought at first it looked in the pictures like the cylinder cover seams were rewelded further away from the outboard edge. Makes sense though that the reworking is due to the manifolds and head dual port openings. |
Actually I believe you're both correct. Pete, when Joe built my long block he installed custom barrel spacers for the 80mm P/C's to get the proper deck height. These barrel spacers push the heads outward a little, not much. Not sure if he had to do this on your long block or not. I think it's possible to leave the cylinder tins as is, but the guys at Monkey Nut VW wanted a nice tight fit for good airflow. Also, I do remember needing to verify exhaust port spacing from left to right so the exhaust would fit, because the heads moved outwards. I will confirm. |
I understand now. When discussing my engine build with Joe I recall him mentioning his combinations NOT making the engine wider, but to be honest now I’m not sure if he was talking about the 80 x 69.5 or his 1500 80 x 74 (and his preference for Porsche crank/rods/pistons over DPR modified crank, H beam rods, etc). It probably was the later combo he was touting as not “growing” the engine. FWIW I don’t think Franz has added any width to my tin setup. I think the VS exhaust I have for it is advertised as having .2” adjustment for striker motors. |
I did all of the tin work on this engine. I knew it was stroked, but honestly I just find it easier to do all of the fits/ mods necessary with the tins split like that. There are only 10 or 12 spot welds holding the three pieces together.
It got some heater boxes narrowed up too, to fit around the Vintage Speed exhaust, and retain some "correct" airflow, as well as pushrod tube protection
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| aeromech wrote: |
| in my opinion you don't know shit |
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PeteSC
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 881
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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| ^^^Nice work...the heater box mod is great! 👍 |
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I've thought about it, but probably not. Clean & simple.
