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1958 Outlaw Beetle Build
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Mr. Okrasa Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

OK....I'm jumping in here............

The later, 1958 on up had their large (6) 10mm through bolts, where the washers sit, spot faced. See photo below:
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Big_E_Deluxe wrote:
Rome wrote:
Such clean work on the engine and tins!

Did Joe machine (spot-face) the right case perimeter to fit large-head M8 nuts and thick washers, like the GeneBerg modification on later cases?
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Sorry Rome, I don't know the answer to this question. Hoping Joe will jump on here at some point and answer some of these questions. It's funny how much I've learned during the engine build process, but still don't know the half of it.

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JeeWee
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:50 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

wow this is a very nice car, well done! I love the tire choice as well, is it 165 of 155?

and what is the thought behind drilling the drums, is it for cooling or weight saving? Or something else I don't know of yet...

And I am also very curious after the dyno results, will you get it on a dyno for final fine tuning and a hp reading?
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Slow 1200
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:43 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

sweet ride, congratulations!
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Big_E_Deluxe
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

JeeWee wrote:
wow this is a very nice car, well done! I love the tire choice as well, is it 165 of 155?

and what is the thought behind drilling the drums, is it for cooling or weight saving? Or something else I don't know of yet...

And I am also very curious after the dyno results, will you get it on a dyno for final fine tuning and a hp reading?


Thank you! I have 165's in the front and 185's in the rear. So far no rubbing. Will need to do more driving to confirm.

Drilled drums are for cooling and to let water escape, that's the theory. I'm sure we could create another thread just on this topic, regarding pros & cons. The rears that I bought were already drilled, so I had the fronts drilled by to match. Front & rear drums were re-lined and drilled by specialist. The beetle is a driver, not a race car, so I probably won't see any big differences, just wanted to stay consistent front to rear. We will see if it was a good decision or not.

Never thought of doing a dyno. It would be interesting to see. Especially since I plan to change the carb setup in the future. It would be nice to see what gains were made over this current setup.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:09 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

cool tire choice! Have thought of that as well, but today I'll pick up my new vredestein sprint classic's 155R15 front and 165R15 rear. 185R15 dimension was a bit too much for the splitcase gearbox ('56 oval), especially 4th gear, it lowers the rpm on the freeway which is lowering as well the cooling.

regarding the dyno, I do it to get the jetting right. I believe most tuned motors are considered as not reliable because they break down due to incorrect jetting. For sure there is more when it comes to tuned engines, but the right mixture is crucial. After putting a lot of money in such an engine, you want to know the result, isn't it?

I have dyno'd my car last year with the WW 32PBIC kit, now putting zenith 32NDIX on it, see how much it will increase, I do not expect big numbers, maybe 4hp.

Keep up posting your findings and modifications!
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Rome
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Quote:
The later, 1958 on up had their large (6) 10mm through bolts, where the washers sit, spot faced

Thanks, Mr. O. I was actually wondering about the 8mm nuts along the case perimeter. The nuts look like the large, 15mm wrench size ones that GeneBerg sells for his later case modifications in which his shop spot-faces the contact area around the case perimeter to make room for the larger nuts.
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Brian Mathe
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Very nice build. Do you mind sharing the amount of drop on the front spindles and if you lowered the rear end please? I really like the stance you have. Aggressive, yet very drivable. I like it. Thanks
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Big_E_Deluxe
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Brian Mathe wrote:
Very nice build. Do you mind sharing the amount of drop on the front spindles and if you lowered the rear end please? I really like the stance you have. Aggressive, yet very drivable. I like it. Thanks


Brian, Thank you!

We used CB Performance 2.5" dropped spindles up front. This is the only adjustment we made to the front ride height. The rear was lowered by one outer spline. The tires (front 165/rear 185) share the same outer diameter, so no change in stance from front to rear caused by tires. Beetle has a very slight rake, but once you're sitting in the car it levels out. This was the goal.


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1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
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joe h.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

We have very similar taste.

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Big_E_Deluxe
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Very nice Joe!
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1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
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motofly196
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Both very beautiful cars! Joe, I see you are listed as being in Seattle. Will you have your oval at Seattle Vintage Meet this year? I don't venture out of the swap meet area too often, but I'd love to get some photos of your car!!
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joe h.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

motofly196 wrote:
Both very beautiful cars! Joe, I see you are listed as being in Seattle. Will you have your oval at Seattle Vintage Meet this year? I don't venture out of the swap meet area too often, but I'd love to get some photos of your car!!


Not this year. I had a unfortunate learning experience trying to install a NOS
headliner. Crying or Very sad
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motofly196
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

That's too bad about the headliner, blame it on shrinkage from being on a shelf all these years! I'd love to get a look at your car, Big E lives too far away to see his car at a show. Both of your cars have an awesome look that I'm after with my 56' ragtop. Both look very well done, and not littered with a bunch of "non-speed" items.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:09 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Max is back home, picked him up over the weekend. Here's a few shots out in the wild.....


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1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
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motofly196
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Now that you've driven it a little bit, how do you like how it handles? Any rubbing with tires that big up front?

It is an extremely well done car!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

motofly196 wrote:
Now that you've driven it a little bit, how do you like how it handles? Any rubbing with tires that big up front?

It is an extremely well done car!


It handles very well, steering is tight, no wandering. Front end was aligned & wheels balanced, smooth results. Ride quality is excellent, nothing harsh about it. Koni Classics are set to softest setting, may want to mess with this a little to see if there is an improvement to be had. Plenty of ground clearance too. There is some rubbing at slow, full turn, right side only. Passenger side front fender outer lip sits a little lower than the driver side. Beetle is level, must be a replacement fender. I wish I had about 1/4" to 1/2" of increase in height, then it would not be an issue. Not sure how I can achieve this. Adjustable beam is at its highest "stock" position. Dropped spindles have set the height.

Engine power is a big improvement over the stock 36hp. It pulls nicely thru all gears, without hesitation. Monkey Nut VW spent a lot of time getting these carbs dialed in. No hesitation, no stalling, just smooth power. I'm positive that having Joe Ruiz rebuild these carbs right out of the box had a lot to do with it too. The WW Okrasa kit is not ready to go out of the box. Manifolds needed to be resurfaced for a flat mounting surface too. It's no longer scary to pullout into traffic. I was actually passing cars for a change. You can never have enough power, but this engine just feels right for this beetle. Exhaust is loud, but it sounds really great, perfect for this look and experience! The sound at idle is the best. 60 mph is roughly 2500 rpm with stock split case trans. Feels like I could cruise all day long. Oil temp has been around 194 F in 95+ heat, no matter how I drive it.

Brakes work really well, smooth feedback at pedal, not a sound or vibration. Haven't even come close to using their full potential. Again, Monkey Nut VW has them dialed in, no pull when brakes are applied, straight and confident.

Real happy with how everything turned out. Just need to dial in the front ride height.
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1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
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JeeWee
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Big_E_Deluxe wrote:
The tires (front 165/rear 185) share the same outer diameter, so no change in stance from front to rear caused by tires. Beetle has a very slight rake, but once you're sitting in the car it levels out. This was the goal.


I am still a big fan of the stance and tire choice (and the rest of the car), but looking closely at the pictures and your writing, could it be that you run the 185/70R15 tires in the rear instead of 185/80R15? And when I am right, you don't have an adjustable beam to go a bit higher in the front?
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Big_E_Deluxe
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

JeeWee wrote:
Big_E_Deluxe wrote:
The tires (front 165/rear 185) share the same outer diameter, so no change in stance from front to rear caused by tires. Beetle has a very slight rake, but once you're sitting in the car it levels out. This was the goal.


I am still a big fan of the stance and tire choice (and the rest of the car), but looking closely at the pictures and your writing, could it be that you run the 185/70R15 tires in the rear instead of 185/80R15? And when I am right, you don't have an adjustable beam to go a bit higher in the front?


The rears are currently 185/70VR15, not 80. Pirelli only makes 3 sizes of this tire for a 15" wheel. I did some more research and have determined that the 185/70's are shorter than the 165's I'm using up front. I will gain an additional 1/4" of clearance at the fender by using the 185's. Doesn't seem like much but that's all I need. I've tried the 185's up front and I think it will solve most of the full turn issues, no rubbing. Yes, they are a little wider, but not by much. Hard to tell the difference in appearance. I would also think that the wider tire upfront will improve braking and handling as well.
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1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
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txoval
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Great looking car and motor.

If you ever get the urge for a little more power, I highly recommend going to a set of dual 36DRLAs with Ray's manifolds.

When I switched to 36IDF's it made a huge difference...if I do it again, I'll go DRLA's over IDFs...more progression holes for smoother throttle

You can check out my photos for pics
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Txoval-

OT alert.

“I highly recommend going to a set of…Ray's manifolds…it made a huge difference”

Hmmm. Why do you think the Webers made such big difference? Manifold? WW repro carbs aren't very good?

Cheers,

Paul
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