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1958 Outlaw Beetle Build
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gimmesomeshelter
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Joe-

Regarding the Solex's, I found this quote on the 356 Carburetor Rescue site:

If you are considering switching from a Zenith to a Solex
carburetor, remember the choice of carburetor is dependent
on the Cam in your engine, not the installation of a "big bore
kit'. Lower reving engines (4500 / 5500 rpm) - stock 1500 and
1600 engines as used by the A, B, and C cars - need to use
Zeniths with their smaller 32mm bore. SC's and later cars,
comfortably running to 6,000 rpm, can accomodate the 40mm
bore of the Solex carburetors. Without the right cam,
switching carburetors will not gain you any advantage.


Would you agree with this statement?

Cheers,

Paul
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sled
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:08 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

SO many people over-carburate their engines because it looks cool, not considering what the actual optimum carburetor would be.

NDIX's are a much better match for this small engine.
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Mr. Okrasa Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Hi Paul,
Since i've never driven a car with dual Zeniths, I couldn't give you a personal/honest answer about 40mm vs. 32mm carb bores. What I do know is when i'm on the freeway going about 70mph+ and "give it some juice", the car responds sooo gooood and always runs cool. Maybe because I have a Pro Street transmission with a 412 R/P? I'm always going past the RED on my tach. but the engine doesn't seem to mind? The Ghia just wants to run all day long. I'm running a Pre-A SUPER camshaft that I had Web-Cam "rework" and seems to work fine with these carbs. I'm going to put together a Denzel 1500cc with 40X35 heads running Weber DCM carbs. and pull this engine out to see what kinda HP I can get out of it.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


gimmesomeshelter wrote:
Joe-

Regarding the Solex's, I found this quote on the 356 Carburetor Rescue site:

If you are considering switching from a Zenith to a Solex
carburetor, remember the choice of carburetor is dependent
on the Cam in your engine, not the installation of a "big bore
kit'. Lower reving engines (4500 / 5500 rpm) - stock 1500 and
1600 engines as used by the A, B, and C cars - need to use
Zeniths with their smaller 32mm bore. SC's and later cars,
comfortably running to 6,000 rpm, can accomodate the 40mm
bore of the Solex carburetors. Without the right cam,
switching carburetors will not gain you any advantage.


Would you agree with this statement?

Cheers,

Paul

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Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE

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Big_E_Deluxe
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Paul,

356 Carburetor Rescue (Jim) in AZ rebuilt my 40 P-II's specifically for my stroked engine. I guess you never know for sure unless you try. We're going to give it a shot and see how it goes. If it doesn't work, then we'll put the current setup back on. I can always build another larger engine and put the 40 P-II's on that.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Been following these vintage 36 horse threads lately. Very impressive. Got to love the look of those huge old Porsche Solex's on them. It's amazing you can actually do it. The 26mm Venturi sounds right to me.
I have driven the 356's with both the little Solex PBIC-32's and the Zenith NDIX 32's. The little Solex were well behaved and really a pretty nice match for the (74mm Stroke)X(82.5's) Porsche 356A engine. But the Zenith NDIX-32's were more fun as well as more cantankerous.

I installed Dual Porsche Zenith NDIX-32-25's on my 1679cc VW Type 1 dp engine and feel they are the best match for it over the Dual Dellorto 36-28's.

Can't wait to see your vintage 36 horse with the Big Solex 40 P-II's.

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gimmesomeshelter
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

While my heart argured "Go with the Solex carbs. They are soooo cool!", I listen to my head, and had Jim rebuild a set of Zenith's off of a '62 356 Super. They're smaller, less expensive to rebuild, and jets are plentiful (in Europe). Here's a crappy picture.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Good luck with the Solex carbs. I can't wait to hear those bad boys scream.

Cheers,

Paul
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Big_E_Deluxe
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

I recently purchased a set of AA 36hp 1.15 ratio rockers and sent them to Tabari Andrade (bugguy1967 - Samaba Member) in California for a solid shaft conversion with swivel adjusters.

AA 1.15 Rockers: https://aapistons.com/collections/rocker-arms/products/vw-36hp-hi-lift-rockers-1-15-8-pcs

Solid Shaft Setup by Tarbari: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2138762

Here are a few pictures of the finished product. Great communication during the process, I would not hesitate hiring Tabari again. Hoping to install them in the next couple weeks.



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Erik

1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
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gimmesomeshelter
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Did Tarbari provide new shafts, or did you provide your own?

Cheers,

Paul
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Big_E_Deluxe
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

gimmesomeshelter wrote:
Did Tarbari provide new shafts, or did you provide your own?

Cheers,

Paul



Paul, I provided the shafts, rockers & 4 mounting rings(correct name?).
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Erik

1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
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Lingwendil
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Those look beautifully done. Which adjusters are those?
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Big_E_Deluxe
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Lingwendil wrote:
Those look beautifully done. Which adjusters are those?


Thorsten Pieper
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Erik

1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
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speedy57tub
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Very nice build, I am really enjoying your post. Where the wheel bearings different on the fronts due to differences between the 356 B and VW spindles shafts? Looking at my parts, it appears that the outer bearings have different inner diameters.
Tony
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Big_E_Deluxe
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

speedy57tub: We used beetle bearings upfront. The outer diameter of the bearings will fit the Porsche drums. Sorry but I don't know the part number for this. Make sure you get the correct castle nut in the rear as well to clear the exposed axle splines. You don't want your castle nut bottoming out on them. You need an early Porsche castle nut. Looks like photos below, large bevel on the back side to clear splines. Some people have used washers and the stock VW castle nut to clear, but this is not a good condition.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The Porsche backing plates will bolt onto the stock spindles and rear axles. If you are using dropped spindles you will need to modify the Porsche front backing plates to clear the relocated spindle. I think I have a picture in the thread somewhere showing the small half round cut we made to clear dropped CB spindles. The brakes are excellent and worth the effort. But it's hard and expensive to find all the correct bolts and inner parts. Some parts you have to find used.

Good luck and thanks for the compliments!
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Erik

1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
2014 Porsche 991.1 Carrera S
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Texbug
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Hi Erik,
Where did you find these castle nuts? I’ve been looking for some like you have pictured but haven’t been able to find. Thanks in advance for your reply.
Mike
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Big_E_Deluxe
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Texbug wrote:
Hi Erik,
Where did you find these castle nuts? I’ve been looking for some like you have pictured but haven’t been able to find. Thanks in advance for your reply.
Mike


I've had luck finding them on eBay as well as AASE. AASE sells nice used & new 356 parts, you just need to check it from time to time. I have another set, but they're not for sale. I'm slowly assembling another complete set of B brakes.

Link: www.aasesales.com

Good luck!
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1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
2014 Porsche 991.1 Carrera S
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Big_E_Deluxe
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

An update on Max.....

Engine: 1500 miles on it and it's running better then ever! Found that the points needed a slight adjustment. After the adjustment, the engine has come alive. Very impressed by it every time I take it out. Again, it's not going to break any records, but just to think it was once a 36hp, just makes me smile. Thanks Joe! Side note: We decided not to install the ratio rockers. We had some rubbing associated with the push rods and tubes. Maybe at some later date we will revisit. Back burner....Solex 40's. It's running so good, want to enjoy it.

Interior: Replaced existing door panels with a set of Lenny Copp red/brown & grey panels. These new panels match the current seat covers/colors correctly.

Suspension: We are still running 185's front & rear. This alone improved cornering, lots of grip. We were able to raise the front about 1/2" to resolve tire rub on front fender lip. Solution was to remove the smaller half size torsion leaves and replace with the larger bar. We removed 4 of the small bars (2 from top tube & 2 front bottom tube) and still have 4 small bars in the total mix. This reduced suspension pre-load slightly, gaining 1/2" in height. We were not sure if it would work but it did. Cornering improved dramatically with stiffer setup & reduced body roll up front. In the rear we replaced stock 60 year old torsion bars with 24mm Sway a Way bars. This stiffened up the rear squat but not too much. All of these chances together made corner a lot more fun. Stance is now level at the running boards. I think it looks great and it's very practical to drive around town, love it!

After the suspension tweaks I attended 2 shows in one weekend covering 400 total miles in Max. Crusing the highway at 70mph at 3k rpm. Only issue was on last day the points needed to be adjusted, had a hard time starting. Other then that it was a fun weekend and drive. Along with that we received some recognition for our hard work. 1st Place win in VW Class at Euro Fest 2018 along with a special recognition award from show sponsors. 2nd day we received a 1st Place win in "Modified Pre-'58 Class at Fast Times at Farmington. Pretty cool for not trying to build a show car.

No big plans on the boards right now for Max, just enjoy the cooler temps and drive as much as possible. I'm hoping that we will get some snow in Charlotte this year.... Yes, I will be taking it out for a "spin"!

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1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
2014 Porsche 991.1 Carrera S


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JWDII
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Erik,
Congrats on all the recognition of your efforts at the two shows! It is well deserved. You beetle is stunning in person! Thank you for taking the time to chat with me at the Farm. It was a pleasure meeting you.

John
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Albertoprop17
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Simply awesome. What a cool car!!

That's my goal on my '54 oval. Now I installed an adjustable beam with stock spindles, caster shimsand a sway bar, and raised the car a bit (before it has dropped spindles, too much drop). Set the koni shocks at the softest setting, installed the 165's again (before 145's because it has rubbing problems).

Now the car handles!! Next step is install 58-64 drums (thicker brake pads) and maybe some 356 style wheels, like yours.

Next will be a vintage speed inspired 1835cc, 4,12 trans, black mamba shifter and a power brake system.

Again, I love your car, is an inspiration for my build!!
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Big_E_Deluxe
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

JWDII wrote:
Erik,
Congrats on all the recognition of your efforts at the two shows! It is well deserved. You beetle is stunning in person! Thank you for taking the time to chat with me at the Farm. It was a pleasure meeting you.

John


Hey John...it was a pleasure talking to you as well. Hope to see you again soon, E
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Erik

1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
2014 Porsche 991.1 Carrera S
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Big_E_Deluxe
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Albertoprop17 wrote:
Simply awesome. What a cool car!!

That's my goal on my '54 oval. Now I installed an adjustable beam with stock spindles, caster shimsand a sway bar, and raised the car a bit (before it has dropped spindles, too much drop). Set the koni shocks at the softest setting, installed the 165's again (before 145's because it has rubbing problems).

Now the car handles!! Next step is install 58-64 drums (thicker brake pads) and maybe some 356 style wheels, like yours.

Next will be a vintage speed inspired 1835cc, 4,12 trans, black mamba shifter and a power brake system.

Again, I love your car, is an inspiration for my build!!


Sounds cool. Post up a picture, would love to see it. I messed with the Koni's a bit and also found that the softest setting felt the best. Good to see that you felt the same way. Good luck on your future upgrades, keep us posted. BTW, I saw your post on the control arms, very interesting. I've never seen those before. E
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1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
2014 Porsche 991.1 Carrera S


Last edited by Big_E_Deluxe on Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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