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CNSRANCH Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2017 Posts: 126 Location: United States
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:25 am Post subject: Why do my front spindle nuts keep coming loose? |
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73, ball joint front end, disc brakes. Both sides give me problems. Just replaced bearings and races. All seated properly. I just re-tightened them both and cranked the crap out of the allen screws. Threads look fine.
Do you think the spindle nuts have stretched over time?
Spec calls for 7-9# on the screws, that ain't doing it.
Kinda scary when the brakes start bouncing when the nuts loosen.
What say you all?
Oh.......just had a pro set the toe......it was out almost 3" (can you say wander?).......can that fix the problem? |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20380 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:40 am Post subject: Re: Why do my front spindle nuts keep coming loose? |
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Check nut to see if it has a gap so there is room to put pinch pressure on spindle... Also do you have washer between bearing and nut...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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CNSRANCH Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2017 Posts: 126 Location: United States
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Why do my front spindle nuts keep coming loose? |
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Thanks Dale......washer's there, I think it's time for new nuts.
They're both right hand thread........sure seems like the pass side should be left. |
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57BLITZ Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012 Posts: 2385 Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Why do my front spindle nuts keep coming loose? |
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CNSRANCH wrote: |
They're both right hand thread........sure seems like the pass side should be left. |
Wrong! Left side should be left-hand threads. The "fail-safe" default is for the nuts to tighten . . . and NOT for the wheel to fall off!
BTW . . . the washers should NOT be able to rotate on the spindle . . . the tab must fit into the slot in the spindle snug enough to prevent the washer from spinning. _________________ Jesucristo es mi Señor y Salvador! |
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CNSRANCH Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2017 Posts: 126 Location: United States
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Why do my front spindle nuts keep coming loose? |
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I AM NOT LOSING MY MIND (at least not just yet.).
Driver's side tightens to the right.....hence, right-hand thread - makes sense.
Passenger side also tightens to the right......it SHOULD tighten to the left.
How can that be?
Ya can't put the damned things on backwards. |
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57BLITZ Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012 Posts: 2385 Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Why do my front spindle nuts keep coming loose? |
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Read the description for the nut . . . https://www.jbugs.com/product/131405669.html
CNSRANCH wrote: |
Ya can't put the damned things on backwards. |
I was thinking that there is NO way for you to have two of the same (right-side) spindles on a Ball-Joint front suspension . . . that would be obvious it's wrong because the arm for the tie-rod would point forward on one side.
Are they aftermarket spindles that were made (threaded) incorrectly?
OR . . . did somebody "REPAIR" the spindle threads at some point? Sure seems that the threads would look very sketchy if that were done!
Left spindles (and LEFT spindle nuts) have left-hand threads. _________________ Jesucristo es mi Señor y Salvador! |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16758 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:14 am Post subject: Re: Why do my front spindle nuts keep coming loose? |
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I use the clamp type nuts as show in the pic. Never an issue. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12740 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:35 am Post subject: Re: Why do my front spindle nuts keep coming loose? |
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Yes something is seriously wrong there! I have never seen that issue on the front of a VW of any kind.
You do leave a bit of slack in the bearings for heat expansion right? You can wiggle the wheel slightly when you are done? Move the washer sideways with a screw driver?
I thought so... Just checking... |
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CNSRANCH Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2017 Posts: 126 Location: United States
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Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Why do my front spindle nuts keep coming loose? |
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It occurred to me that someone may have pressed a new spindle in and used the wrong one......I'll have to check and see if the pass side has a hole for a speedo cable. |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16758 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Why do my front spindle nuts keep coming loose? |
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Yeah - bottom line is that the nuts are NOT supposed to be interchangable from side to side. and I adjust mine to where I can slide the thrust washer back and forth with a moderate effort using a big flat blade screwdriver. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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57BLITZ Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012 Posts: 2385 Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Why do my front spindle nuts keep coming loose? |
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To clarify exactly what is happening . . .
Are you saying that you adjusted the wheel bearings properly, took a drive, and the wheel bearings then had excessive play?
Are you positive that your spindle nuts actually moved?
Something similar has happened to me! The wheel bearings loosened up after driving . . . the spindle nuts on my car, however did NOT actually ROTATE on the spindle and loosen!
There are other scenarios that could cause the bearings to become loose after being adjusted.
One example . . . the inside wheel bearing outer-race was not fully seated in the brake hub . . . the race(s) worked further into the hub during the test drive and the bearings became loose.
You should make note (a couple photos maybe) of the nuts after being adjusted and before driving to see if the nuts themselves are turning during a drive.
As I mentioned before, the default is for wheel rotation to TIGHTEN spindle nuts against the bearings.
Be sure to look at what Dale told you to check . . . that gap for the pinch bolt . . . Ya gotta have a gap so that the pinch-bolt will tighten and cause the spindle nut to grip the threads!
How "bout those washers . . . tab fits in the slot so washer will not rotate on the spindle, correct?
The big mystery is why you have right-hand threads on both spindles.
CNSRANCH wrote: |
It occurred to me that someone may have pressed a new spindle in and used the wrong one......I'll have to check and see if the pass side has a hole for a speedo cable. |
In the possibility you mention here . . . both sides would have left-hand threads!
Stock spindles are one-piece forgings . . . NOTHING is pressed in.
Many aftermarket spindles are a casting with a steel "stub axle" pressed in.
In either case, the left side spindle has left hand threads and the hole for the speedometer cable.
The right-side spindle has RIGHT-HAND threads.
Here in North America, the "Passenger Side" is the right side . . .
If you have a spindle on the right side with a hole for a speedometer cable, it is abnormal!
If your left spindle has RIGHT-HAND threads, it is abnormal!
BTW . . . I looked at all the photos you have posted on TheSamba Forum in an attempt to find some clues that would help to figure out why you would have right-hand threads on both sides . . . about all I could see is that you have a ball-joint front beam . . . If you could, please post some new photos of the spindles in question . . . I'm curious as to what's going on! _________________ Jesucristo es mi Señor y Salvador! |
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