Insulation to replace the stock insulation?

[82westyrabbit]

Hi. I have all my interior panels to seal the seams and install Dinomat. The seam sealing is done and I am trying to come up with a alternative insulation. Any thoughts would be great. John

[Multiman mv]

Someone on this forum turned me on to this site, Sound Deadener Showdown. There’s a bunch of good info on this site. There products aren’t cheap but you can learn a bit by reading about their different products.

https://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com

[pbrown]

Look at Dynaliner if you are already planning on Dynamat. It gets installed right over the top.

http://www.dynamat.com/brands/dynaliner/
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1986 Westy Syncro EJ25
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[weswsimpson]

Fiberglass drop ceiling tiles? They are thin, can be glued together and the thin plastic side would control fiberglass particles from floating around. Easy to cut, bend, etc.

[Jake de Villiers]

Foil/bubble/bubble/foil insulation has pretty good R values for the thickness, it will fit inside no problem and (most importantly!) it won't trap the moisture that condenses on the inside of the body panels!!
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[IdahoDoug]

I'm using fiberglas insulation with a waterproof layer against the body skin. I've since found a thin plastic grid I'd like to have glued to the skin to ensure some circulation, so I'd do that. I also used some 3M double side foam hooks at the bottom edge of the batting to prevent it from settling down into any condensation that might pool like the factory insulation did. That's why many have rust at the bottom of the cavities. The factory fiberglas acted like a wick, constantly keeping itself wet.

Over top of the fiberglas just under the interior panels I put the silver bubble foil insulation you can purchase by the roll at Home Despot. As a bonus, the remaining roll I used to cut window insulation, which is held in place with suction cups when in use, and they all roll up to about a foot diameter roll I stash under the back seat.

I should have taken before/after temp readings, but it seems to work incredibly well in combination with the white paint on the roof. For example, on a hot day at a bike race recently, I had the window covers in place before sunup and even in the heat of the day it was a "cool" and dark respite to come into and lay down for a while with a gentle fan breeze.

That treatment is from the A pillars rearward, including the hatch and slider. I'm really please with its performance both summer and winter where my propane heater retains inside temps all night with just the pilot light.

I put pics and a further description here when I did all this a couple years back.

Doug
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[bjrogers86auto]

Roxul insulation.
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[W1K1]

i've used a couple layers of the EZ cool insulation in my square. it stays cool and dampens the noise very well, plus it weighs next to nothing . http://www.lobucrod.com/newinspics.html

I did the B-quiet ultimate for 2 layers in my bug and the doors closed with a nice thud. but it didn't dampen the noise at all and added 70- 100 lbs of weight https://www.b-quiet.com/products/b-quiet-ultimate-50sqft

do you want vibration dampening (Dynamat) or sound/heat insulation (EZ cool) ??
A combination of both is best. strips, or squares on large panels of dyanmat dampen vibration and then insulation for sound reduction.
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[82westyrabbit]

I am looking for noise damping mostly but insulation is good to. I am starting with dynamat(already underway). Then some as of yet unknown insulation. Then wood paneling to top it off. My Tiico engine is more revey and not as smooth as a wxb engine so I am just trying to quite it down a little. It’s apart so I could seal the back of the seams. It would be asham to have it that far apart and not quite it down some and insulate it. Thanks for the input. John

[cmayna]

Here's a link I just found which brings up quite a few different brands with their pros and cons.

I also want to replace the stock insulation behind the fridge etc, so this is a good education for me as well. It has woken me up a little regarding insulating windows, installing a pop top fan, etc. Lots of good info.

https://gnomadhome.com/van-build-insulation/
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Craig

[nemobuscaptain]

No insulation is my choice, at least if you are in an area with humidity. Unless you can completely seal the compartment, and you can't if you still have drain holes and haven't welded up completely the bottom seams, you will get condensation inside and trap it between the insulation and the metal.

And don't take advise from people from California or Arizona who don't understand why you are fixing seam rust and want to remove the stock insulation.
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[Multiman mv]

I ended up using dynamat extreme on the insides of all the doors, headliner and body panels with a layer of 1/2” dynaliner on top of the dynamat everywhere except for the front doors where it would have interfered with the windows. The results have been a great improvement in terms of sound dampening and heat retention. Well worth the effort.

[82westyrabbit]

A lot of good reading in likings above. I will post pictures of what I decide to do when it’s. Thanks John

[vwwestyman]

[IdahoDoug]

Dave,

Yeah, it does look like a great idea. So, I can't reveal the company I saw the material at because they are a defense contractor but I think it can be found. This company makes marine hulls out of fiberglas layups and also carbon fiber. The material is a grid that comes on rolls and is floppy plastic. They use it in a process called "vacuum bagging" which involves the use of a mild vacuum to draw out excess resin. Moving the resin through the material to pull out the excess also pulls out air bubbles for zero voids and perfect fiberglas matting to resin ratios. It's a common process in the boat industry, so the material is going to be common, available in bulk, and cheap as it is thrown away after use.

So the material has a clever design that for us would allow air to move in 2 directions to circulate out from under insulation otherwise pinned against the metal skin. So water could drip along the wall and drying air could also be channeled in.

If I'd seen this before doing mine, I would have glued the grid to the inner metal up top and let it drape down the body panel. Then I would have just installed the insulation as normal against it, knowing there would always be air circulation potential back there. My fiberglas insulation had a waterproof membrane which faced the metal. The inner face is traditional fiberglass, then covered with the plastic foil bubble insulation.

If you have trouble finding this stuff, PM me and I'll ask someone at the company. I'd use the largest diameter of the stuff just to maximize air space and success. The stuff I found was about 1mm thick mat.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[Multiman mv]

How about “cedar breather” if just looking to create an airspace between insulation and the body panels. It’s used on roofs and sidewalls as a breathable layer between the the shingles and the sheathing. It’s relatively cheap and you wouldn’t need much to do a van. The material looks like a big Brillo pad and is about a half an inch thick.

When I insulated my van I left the dynamat and dynaliner off of the bottom few inches of the body panels and coated the metal with a sprayable wax called Cosmoline to prevent any water or condensation that may find its way in there from corroding the metal. The dynamat will also help prevent corrosion by preventing moisture from reaching the metal as long as it is applied well without wrinkles. I found that a little bit of heat from a hair dryer helped when applying it to hard to reach areas. Again, I feel like the effort I put into insulation made a big difference in sound control and heat/ac retention.

[82westyrabbit]

After much thought and consideration and after reading the links posted on this thread, I decided to go with the sheep wool insulation.

It was easy to cut and install. I felt that I was not going to be able to get as good a seal as I would have liked if I had used the foam insulation. The sheep wool is mostly touching the Dynamat and not the van metal itself. Theoretically the sheep wool will wick the moisture away from the metal as opposed to holding it against the metal as the fiberglass will do. Now I can start re-installing the door panels. Thanks for the input and the links. John

[Multiman mv]

Sounds like a great choice. Let us know how you think it performs for both sound and thermal. I bet the heat retention properties will be noticeably improved. Time to install a cab heater if you don’t have one already.

[vwwestyman]

Hmm, one of the virtues of wool extolled here is how it is hygroscopic and will absorb water from the atmosphere and later release it. I don't know if that means it would in turn be holding that moisture against the metal, or if it would be keeping it away... Though it does mention that the moisture holding ability helps keep timbers from drying out.

http://www.sheepwoolinsulation.ie/why_wool/
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Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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[vwwestyman]

Perhaps hemp insulation would be fitting for our Vans and Buses!

https://www.blackmountaininsulation.com/products/natuhemp

This site says about both their hemp and wool insulation that the hygroscopic nature will actually keep the moisture away from timbers which would cause rot. So perhaps my thoughts earlier were incorrect and by absorbing moisture into the insulation to be held and then slowly releasing it later is better? I have no idea.
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing