Author |
Message |
Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
|
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:53 am Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
Quote: |
yeah, by no start
just what is it doing
do you get a slow crank
a multiple clicks/chatter
a single click
or nothing at all from the rear
|
Its a $10 charge for reporting a no-start without covering the above. _________________ .ssS! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6379 Location: Westfalia, Earth
|
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:05 am Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
If you swap an alternator yourself, make sure to start by disconnecting the negative battery cable. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
|
Back to top |
|
|
raoul mitgong Samba Member
Joined: July 05, 2009 Posts: 1338 Location: Denver, CO
|
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:18 am Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
All previous post will likely point to your problem (if your symptoms are slow crank, no crank, clicking (starter not spinning engine fast enough)).
Loose wire(s), bad alternator, or bad battery.
The only other thing I can think of to check is the alternator mounts. This is a weak spot on the engine case that will often crack causing a loose belt which can cause the alt not to charge.
You might want to get a portable battery pack to prevent getting stuck out of cell service. They are anywhere from $50 to $100. The Li-Ion ones are tiny. If you have a "house" battery under your driver's seat, you can jump yourself with a set of cables too.
-d _________________ 84 Westy with a 2.1 (Groover)
86 Tintop Syncro (Crow)
86 Tintop Syncro to Westy project (Tom Servo)
91 Westy (Only the top 12 inches of this van (a burn victim)) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6379 Location: Westfalia, Earth
|
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:23 am Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
raoul mitgong wrote: |
...you can jump yourself with a set of cables too. |
Oh Brother, that's just sick. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
|
Back to top |
|
|
elizer Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2016 Posts: 1450 Location: Northern Virginia
|
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:35 am Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
E1 wrote: |
raoul mitgong wrote: |
...you can jump yourself with a set of cables too. |
Oh Brother, that's just sick. |
No Raoul is right. I learned at a young age self reliance is key |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ride-Fly Samba Member
Joined: May 25, 2015 Posts: 621 Location: PDX
|
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:28 am Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical prob |
|
|
Ahwahnee wrote: |
danfromsyr wrote: |
yeah, by no start
just what is it doing
do you get a slow crank
a multiple clicks/chatter
a single click
or nothing at all from the rear... |
Everything pretty much depends on the answer to the above.
Not Vanagon Syndrome.
Possibly a hot-start issue (resolved by adding a relay, meanwhile do not shut it down unless you'll be parked awhile).
Could be Temp II sensor. It can fool you as while you are doing other stuff (getting a jump, looking for a cell signal) it cools enough to be okay.
Could be the battery or alternator.
Almost any auto parts place (O'reilly, AutoZone, etc. will wheel a tester out to the vehicle and test the battery (load test, not just voltage) and also test the alternator.
As mentioned, alternator replacement is straight-forward wrenching -- easily handled in a campground or parking lot. |
It looks like it’s a hot start issue as several others have m ntioned. I got the van started this morning. Even stopped to get gas, and van started up fine several times.
So how do I add a relay? Is it as simple as getting a second battery strap (cable) and hooking it up from the negative terminal to a point on the frame?
Thanks! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
raoul mitgong Samba Member
Joined: July 05, 2009 Posts: 1338 Location: Denver, CO
|
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:03 am Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
Describe exactly what is happening when it acts up.
-d _________________ 84 Westy with a 2.1 (Groover)
86 Tintop Syncro (Crow)
86 Tintop Syncro to Westy project (Tom Servo)
91 Westy (Only the top 12 inches of this van (a burn victim)) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6379 Location: Westfalia, Earth
|
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:05 am Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
elizer wrote: |
E1 wrote: |
raoul mitgong wrote: |
...you can jump yourself with a set of cables too. |
Oh Brother, that's just sick. |
No Raoul is right. I learned at a young age self reliance is key |
No you didn't.
(sorry, just looking to mix it up on the web)
_________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Eric_Taylor Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2011 Posts: 291 Location: Bend, Oregon
|
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
raoul mitgong wrote: |
Describe exactly what is happening when it acts up.
-d |
This. Without that answer, it's all a shot in the dark hoping to replace the right part.
Is it a stick? Does it bump start when hot? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15129 Location: Syracuse, NY
|
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
here maybe you'll find this how to (blow up a transmission) video useful in bump starting a vw bus.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=701385
**Warning kids, DO NOT try to bump start your bus in reverse** (Or G for you Syncro owners).
_________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
chimivee Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2009 Posts: 741 Location: Orange, CA
|
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
Abscate wrote: |
Quote: |
yeah, by no start
just what is it doing
do you get a slow crank
a multiple clicks/chatter
a single click
or nothing at all from the rear
|
Its a $10 charge for reporting a no-start without covering the above. |
Applicable for each failure to do so. OP, you're up to like 50 bux or something.
As others mentioned, the battery still needs to be checked. A bad alternator can make a bad battery. If you end up needing a hard-start relay, Jay Brown's kit makes it easy:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1066289 _________________ -James
86 Syncro Westy, etc |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ride-Fly Samba Member
Joined: May 25, 2015 Posts: 621 Location: PDX
|
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
Abscate wrote: |
Quote: |
yeah, by no start
just what is it doing
do you get a slow crank
a multiple clicks/chatter
a single click
or nothing at all from the rear
|
Its a $10 charge for reporting a no-start without covering the above. |
chimivee wrote: |
Abscate wrote: |
Quote: |
yeah, by no start
just what is it doing
do you get a slow crank
a multiple clicks/chatter
a single click
or nothing at all from the rear
|
Its a $10 charge for reporting a no-start without covering the above. |
Applicable for each failure to do so. OP, you're up to like 50 bux or something.
As others mentioned, the battery still needs to be checked. A bad alternator can make a bad battery. If you end up needing a hard-start relay, Jay Brown's kit makes it easy:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1066289 |
Ok who do I pay?
Last night, when I turned the key, I didn’t hear anything. No click of the starter.
I had the battery and alternator checked this morning at Napa- both good with battery at 12.6V and alternator at 13.5V unloaded and 13.24V loaded (wipers, hi beams, fan on).
So I added a second ground. Not sure if I did it right but so far no problems with starting.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15129 Location: Syracuse, NY
|
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
that's a good start but 1/2 way there.
I'd mentioned in my earlier post.. add a cable from the (cleaned) lower starter bolt to the frame. I use a long one and bolt to the frame where the oem gnd strap is on the DS front of the transaxle.
danfromsyr wrote: |
clean the ground paths, add an additional ground strap from the starter bolt to the (clean) chassis bolt.
|
_________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Paulbeard Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2015 Posts: 2604 Location: Seattle
|
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
Ride-Fly wrote: |
So I added a second ground. Not sure if I did it right but so far no problems with starting.
|
I hope this solves it but when you get home you might want to look into why the OG ground strap wasn't doing it for you. You're going from the same - battery terminal to a different part of the chassis a few inches away from the old ground. Bad cable? Corroded bolt on the old one? _________________ Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
— dhaavers |
|
Back to top |
|
|
raoul mitgong Samba Member
Joined: July 05, 2009 Posts: 1338 Location: Denver, CO
|
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
Ignition switch. _________________ 84 Westy with a 2.1 (Groover)
86 Tintop Syncro (Crow)
86 Tintop Syncro to Westy project (Tom Servo)
91 Westy (Only the top 12 inches of this van (a burn victim)) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ride-Fly Samba Member
Joined: May 25, 2015 Posts: 621 Location: PDX
|
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
raoul mitgong wrote: |
Ignition switch. |
Really? Intermittent fault of the ignition switch? Hmm, never would’ve guessed that. How do I test that? Thanks Raoul. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6379 Location: Westfalia, Earth
|
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:16 am Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
Raoul may be onto it.
Know that if you do this test as I have, you'll soon know the "hot" part of hot wiring:
http://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=33 _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Multiman mv Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2017 Posts: 987 Location: Martha's Vineyard, Ma
|
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
Have you checked and rechecked all grounds and made sure that all bolts and cables are making contact with bare metal? Check the main ground coming off of the front of the transaxle and possibly replace. That particular ground is hugely important and any sort of resistance can cause problems. Do you have a spare ignition switch in your kit? Those darn switches are finicky as hell and even a new one can cause problems. I carry a couple in my kit just in case. Hope you get it sorted out. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
erikgundy98 Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2009 Posts: 297 Location: Vancouver WA
|
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
Ignition switch is cheap, and again, easy to do on the side of the road. I had many of the same symptoms, and switching it solved those random (and often hot, until it stated happening when cold too). I would check a FLAP for one. if nothing else, you are sure it isnt you problem if it persists.
Look up "Ignition Switch" problem here on the Samba _________________ '90 Multivan Westfalia |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ride-Fly Samba Member
Joined: May 25, 2015 Posts: 621 Location: PDX
|
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: On the road to Yellowstone...I’ve got an odd electrical problem |
|
|
I haven’t had the problem again since, but I’ll be checking all the grounds and look up YouTube videos on changing out ignitions once I’m back home.
BTW, as I was driving up the GrandLoop towards the Continental Divide, I heard someone say on the Walkie talkie “is that you Fly Rider?” Was wondering if someone on the Samba was also touring Yellowstone... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|