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Mos6502
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2015
Posts: 725
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 Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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| Eskamobob1 wrote: |
| Mos6502 wrote: |
| That's what I don't get - if you don't like the cars in the first place, why even start with one? |
Wanting to be able to do 75 doesn’t meant you don’t like the car. |
You can do 75 without an engine swap - so talking about being disingenuous  |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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| Eskamobob1 wrote: |
| Mos6502 wrote: |
| That's what I don't get - if you don't like the cars in the first place, why even start with one? |
Wanting to be able to do 75 doesn’t meant you don’t like the car. |
No modification is necessary on 1966-67 vehicles. A stock 66 VW top speed is 75mph. All you need is a post 1965 car. No problem.
Last edited by Helfen on Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12861
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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On the other hand, what if someone acquired a car that was pounded into the ground, stripped of anything valuable or usable, left to rot, & forgotten about for decades? I feel that the individual saving the carcass has an open canvas to do whatever the hell they want to do with it. Ultimately, the person that owns it gets to do anything they want with it.
I've had people try to tell me what I could/should do with a few of my cars & my response is that there's only two ways that they have any input on what happens to the car, buy it or pay me to make it the way you want it, here's my price.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Eskamobob1
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2016
Posts: 541
Location: South OC SoCal
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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| Helfen wrote: |
| Eskamobob1 wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| Eskamobob1 wrote: |
| Mos6502 wrote: |
I'm not saying people can't do what they want to their car. I'm just saying it's like buying an apple pie, scraping out all the filling, then replacing it with handfuls of sardines.
Why not just buy the sardines you really wanted in the first place? Why ruin the apple pie? Whatever floats a person's boat I guess. |
You look at a bug as an already fiished pie while they look at it as a recipie. A bit of allspice in the crust, some rubarb in the filling, and a bit of rasberry bark in the crust may not be what you are use to, but I dont understand why people that like it need to be treated so dismissively |
Try looking at it in this way and it applies to all makes of cars. Take a look at the 1962 Pontiac styling, The 1968-69 Pontiac Tempest, LeMans and GTO, Buick Riviera 1995-99. Those cars were Bill Porters design for GM. There are hundreds more examples like Erwin Komenda who designed the VW Beetle body.
I have no problem with someone who wants a custom car, just build your own car if you think you can do better. Don't do over someone else's creation.
It's like if you bought a Rembrandt painting and then began adding your own touches to it. Why not just paint your own picture. I know a Rembrandt is much more valuable than a Beetle, but still your doing over someone else's work. Someone who knows a lot more about design that any of us would ever hope to know. |
Come on man, that is disengenuous at best. No one here is telling someone to to modify their 300SL. They are saying if you buy a peir imports mass produced wood sign, it shouldn’t offend anyone if you add the apostrophe they opted not to to keep the sign cheap. |
What I said was not disingenuous in the least. Is the Komenda's VW design any less worthy than Rudolf Uhlenhaut's ? No. The 300SL was designed to a certain purpose as was the beetle. Though both have a different purpose doesn't make one more worthy than the other. To say otherwise "would" be disingenuous.
dis·in·gen·u·ous
ˌdisənˈjenyo͞oəs/
adjective
adjective: disingenuous
not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
I think not. |
Yoy compaired the most produces car to ever exist to a Rembrandt. How is that not disengenuous? What makes one more worthy is the fact they made very few of them while the other has had millions upon millions put out.
| Mos6502 wrote: |
| Eskamobob1 wrote: |
| Mos6502 wrote: |
| That's what I don't get - if you don't like the cars in the first place, why even start with one? |
Wanting to be able to do 75 doesn’t meant you don’t like the car. |
You can do 75 without an engine swap - so talking about being disingenuous |
75 puts your rpms in the 3500 range which is not suitable for cruising. The 72 manual even states a max maintained speed of roughly 72 (or 3200 rpms)
| Helfen wrote: |
| Eskamobob1 wrote: |
| Mos6502 wrote: |
| That's what I don't get - if you don't like the cars in the first place, why even start with one? |
Wanting to be able to do 75 doesn’t meant you don’t like the car. |
Since this is a 1958-1967 section no modification is necessary on 1966-67 vehicles. A stock 66 VW top speed is 75mph. All you need is a post 1965 car. No problem. |
Top speed (which is stated to be 81 btw, but good luck with that), not cruising speed. Max suggested cruising speed is 72 or 3200 RMPs and even that ain’t great.
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'74 - front disks/lots more work to do |
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Mos6502
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2015
Posts: 725
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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Then get a new car. 
In the moped scene, we sometimes get people who want to know how to make their moped go 50-60mph. The answer anybody who knows/cares will give is "buy a motorcycle" by the time you've upgraded a moped designed for 25mph, to go 50mph, put in brakes, wheels, tires, to handle the speed - what you end up with is a really shitty motorcycle. If you want a motorcycle, buy a motorcycle and don't waste your time bastardizing mopeds.
To a lesser extent the same lesson applies to old cars. |
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mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7028
Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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| Eskamobob1 wrote: |
75 puts your rpms in the 3500 range which is not suitable for cruising. The 72 manual even states a max maintained speed of roughly 72 (or 3200 rpms)
Top speed (which is stated to be 81 btw, but good luck with that), not cruising speed. Max suggested cruising speed is 72 or 3200 RMPs and even that ain’t great. |
Care to share the references where you're getting this info from? The owner manuals I'm seeing all show top speed and cruise speed to be the same and there's no mention of a maximum safe cruise engine speed.
_________________
1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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| mukluk wrote: |
| Eskamobob1 wrote: |
75 puts your rpms in the 3500 range which is not suitable for cruising. The 72 manual even states a max maintained speed of roughly 72 (or 3200 rpms)
Top speed (which is stated to be 81 btw, but good luck with that), not cruising speed. Max suggested cruising speed is 72 or 3200 RMPs and even that ain’t great. |
Care to share the references where you're getting this info from? The owner manuals I'm seeing all show top speed and cruise speed to be the same and there's no mention of a maximum safe cruise engine speed. |
Yes, and also say you can run all day long at this speed. |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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[quote="Eskamobob1"]
| Helfen wrote: |
| Eskamobob1 wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| Eskamobob1 wrote: |
| Mos6502 wrote: |
I'm not saying people can't do what they want to their car. I'm just saying it's like buying an apple pie, scraping out all the filling, then replacing it with handfuls of sardines.
Why not just buy the sardines you really wanted in the first place? Why ruin the apple pie? Whatever floats a person's boat I guess. |
You look at a bug as an already fiished pie while they look at it as a recipie. A bit of allspice in the crust, some rubarb in the filling, and a bit of rasberry bark in the crust may not be what you are use to, but I dont understand why people that like it need to be treated so dismissively |
Try looking at it in this way and it applies to all makes of cars. Take a look at the 1962 Pontiac styling, The 1968-69 Pontiac Tempest, LeMans and GTO, Buick Riviera 1995-99. Those cars were Bill Porters design for GM. There are hundreds more examples like Erwin Komenda who designed the VW Beetle body.
I have no problem with someone who wants a custom car, just build your own car if you think you can do better. Don't do over someone else's creation.
It's like if you bought a Rembrandt painting and then began adding your own touches to it. Why not just paint your own picture. I know a Rembrandt is much more valuable than a Beetle, but still your doing over someone else's work. Someone who knows a lot more about design that any of us would ever hope to know. |
Come on man, that is disengenuous at best. No one here is telling someone to to modify their 300SL. They are saying if you buy a peir imports mass produced wood sign, it shouldn’t offend anyone if you add the apostrophe they opted not to to keep the sign cheap. |
What I said was not disingenuous in the least. Is the Komenda's VW design any less worthy than Rudolf Uhlenhaut's ? No. The 300SL was designed to a certain purpose as was the beetle. Though both have a different purpose doesn't make one more worthy than the other. To say otherwise "would" be disingenuous.
dis·in·gen·u·ous
ˌdisənˈjenyo͞oəs/
adjective
adjective: disingenuous
not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
I think not. |
<You compaired the most produced car to ever exist to a Rembrandt. How is that not disengenuous? What makes one more worthy is the fact they made very few of them while the other has had millions upon millions put out.>
Answer- No, what I am saying is it doesn't matter who's work it is that you shouldn't do over someone else's work. Where I live I know several builders who build their own cars from scratch. Chassis, body, suspension. Even one guy who makes his own engines from his own designs.
| Mos6502 wrote: |
| Eskamobob1 wrote: |
| Mos6502 wrote: |
| That's what I don't get - if you don't like the cars in the first place, why even start with one? |
Wanting to be able to do 75 doesn’t meant you don’t like the car. |
<You can do 75 without an engine swap - so talking about being disingenuous>
Wrong, the 1966 manual says top speed and cruising speed is 75mph-
<75 puts your rpms in the 3500 range which is not suitable for cruising. The 72 manual even states a max maintained speed of roughly 72 (or 3200 rpms)>
Where? I can't find that in the 1972 manual. What page please?
| Helfen wrote: |
| Eskamobob1 wrote: |
| Mos6502 wrote: |
| That's what I don't get - if you don't like the cars in the first place, why even start with one? |
Wanting to be able to do 75 doesn’t meant you don’t like the car. |
Since this is a 1958-1967 section no modification is necessary on 1966-67 vehicles. A stock 66 VW top speed is 75mph. All you need is a post 1965 car. No problem. |
<Top speed (which is stated to be 81 btw, but good luck with that), not cruising speed. Max suggested cruising speed is 72 or 3200 RMPs and even that ain’t great. |
>
Are you talking about the 1972 manual again? What page does it say that? As said before the 1966 manual says 75MPH |
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ach60 
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2001
Posts: 4139
Location: Santa Maria
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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In a perfect world, I’d modernize on a VW engine:
Roller lifters and roller camshaft profiles. No more flat cams.
It just seems dumb not to take advantage of the technology.
A massive redesign of the VW Air Cooled Engine case:
Oil Filter mounting boss on the rear of the engine.
Oil Line Boss at the front of the engine for oil cooling.
Get rid of the sump, replace with oil Pans that could be available with different capacities.
And make it so the cam drops out the bottom of the case, so we don't have to split the case to change a cam.
Drop the cam lower in the case, and use a chain.
Add a rear cover, for access to the cam gear.
_________________
Good Luck
Al |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:35 am Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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Only thing modern would be the oil filter.
All else was in common use by ww2  |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:08 am Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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| ach60 wrote: |
In a perfect world, I’d modernize on a VW engine:
Roller lifters and roller camshaft profiles. No more flat cams.
It just seems dumb not to take advantage of the technology.
A massive redesign of the VW Air Cooled Engine case:
Oil Filter mounting boss on the rear of the engine.
Oil Line Boss at the front of the engine for oil cooling.
Get rid of the sump, replace with oil Pans that could be available with different capacities.
And make it so the cam drops out the bottom of the case, so we don't have to split the case to change a cam.
Drop the cam lower in the case, and use a chain.
Add a rear cover, for access to the cam gear. |
You do that! |
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1647
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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Let's talk about the elephant in the room...personal automated drone transportation. Our VW's will be worthless   at that point, even roads will be obsolete, but maybe we can add propellers, I hope
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1972 Karmann Ghia |
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mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7028
Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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| Onceler wrote: |
| Let's talk about the elephant in the room...personal automated drone transportation. Our VW's will be worthless at that point, even roads will be obsolete, but maybe we can add propellers, I hope |
Might be worthless to some folks, but sure as hell won't be worthless to me. I have no desire for automated transportation, personal or otherwise.
_________________
1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1647
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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But with no more public money being directed to maintain roads and possibly roads being converted to solar electric generation, then what? Just garage queens? Until us old fogeys die out? This keeps me up at night
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1972 Karmann Ghia |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12861
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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| Onceler wrote: |
| But with no more public money being directed to maintain roads and possibly roads being converted to solar electric generation, then what? Just garage queens? Until us old fogeys die out? This keeps me up at night |
Psssh just raise your VW back up to stock height & it’ll merrily trudge along through the paths, trails, & fields that it was designed to accommodate to begin with.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1647
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Onceler wrote: |
| But with no more public money being directed to maintain roads and possibly roads being converted to solar electric generation, then what? Just garage queens? Until us old fogeys die out? This keeps me up at night |
Psssh just raise your VW back up to stock height & it’ll merrily trudge along through the paths, trails, & fields that it was designed to accommodate to begin with. |
Lol, I exactly thought of your ghiapet when I wrote the above, I think you're ideas are the future
_________________
1972 Karmann Ghia |
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mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7028
Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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| Onceler wrote: |
| But with no more public money being directed to maintain roads and possibly roads being converted to solar electric generation, then what? Just garage queens? Until us old fogeys die out? This keeps me up at night |
Who needs pavement? 
_________________
1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1647
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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| mukluk wrote: |
| Onceler wrote: |
| But with no more public money being directed to maintain roads and possibly roads being converted to solar electric generation, then what? Just garage queens? Until us old fogeys die out? This keeps me up at night |
Who needs pavement?
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Nice!
_________________
1972 Karmann Ghia |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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| Onceler wrote: |
| But with no more public money being directed to maintain roads and possibly roads being converted to solar electric generation, then what? Just garage queens? Until us old fogeys die out? This keeps me up at night |
Nope, they will legislate them off the road.
With self driving cars and their supposed added safety no drivers licenses will be needed or issued. Remember driving a car with a license is a PRIVALAGE not a RIGHT, and it says so in every states motor vehicle rule book. |
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69830
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Make them modern... |
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| Onceler wrote: |
| But with no more public money being directed to maintain roads and possibly roads being converted to solar electric generation, then what? Just garage queens? Until us old fogeys die out? This keeps me up at night |
This won't happen while you are alive
_________________
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