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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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 Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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| crankbait09 wrote: |
| in the oil cooler diagram, washer #4. what kind of washer is that? I assume this is the washer that goes in between the nut, and the case |
That is a split lock washer. Those cut into the soft case material too much.
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crankbait09
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Joined: October 10, 2016
Posts: 1304
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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If you fast forward to the 50 second mark, this guy starts talking about the set up that I have. (middle cooler). He mentions needing washers. Can anyone validate this? According to the link you provided, it doesn't mention washers being used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs9GFxayyUA
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crankbait09
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Joined: October 10, 2016
Posts: 1304
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:29 am Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions, and lessons learned |
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| crankbait09 wrote: |
Next set of topics.....
I did not see a generator stand gasket installed. If I have an alternator, should that have one as well? In the WW catalog, I see a gasket that lays on top of the stand where the generator sits. Does this apply to me?
Fuel Filter. I removed this a few months back to check the gaskets, and to make sure their was no vapor lock. Seemed to be a little, so I cleaned, re-greased, and reinstalled. It seemed to have been better. When I had it apart, I noticed something odd about the fuel pump flange. the shaft of it was shaved/cut off at an angle. I tried to put in a new one that was not modified, and could not get it to drop in place. The shaved one was the only one that worked. WHY? Why would this have been modified? It does not look like it was broke or damaged from the engine. it looks to clean of a cut. Looks to be done by hand
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I would like to confirm all the readings that I've seen on here, as well as direction I have received from the experienced  . The flange, I installed it in to the engine before placing the pump in place. The flange would only go 1n inch or so in to the case. SO I did what I was instructed and sanded down the shaft of the flange with a dremel. Once I did that, the new flange fell right in to place. So the broken flange that was originally in place has been replaced with a happy flange  All is well.
To back up, if the original flange was broke, but the car ran...was their any benefit to replacing it with one that did not have a broken shaft? Will the performance of the car change with a complete flange?
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:22 am Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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| crankbait09 wrote: |
If you fast forward to the 50 second mark, this guy starts talking about the set up that I have. (middle cooler). He mentions needing washers. Can anyone validate this? According to the link you provided, it doesn't mention washers being used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs9GFxayyUA |
That is a new one for us! That cooler has the later bigger oil passages and as he says it is designed to be used on the later cases with bigger passages. So if one uses it with the earlier small passage engine case, washers and 8 to 10 mm converter seals must be used.
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:50 am Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions, and lessons learned |
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| crankbait09 wrote: |
To back up, if the original flange was broke, but the car ran...was their any benefit to replacing it with one that did not have a broken shaft? Will the performance of the car change with a complete flange? |
Hopefully it did not just fall in place. You really want a snug fit so it is supported by the lower casting it slides thru. With no support that lower flange part can break off from the upper.
No, you are not going to have more performance. You will have the flange last better and longer. After all that rod is moving up and down thousands of times a minute, all the while the lower end of the rod is sitting on a outer edge of a rotating shaft that wants to shove the rod end sideways.
Those flanges are made of a hard material that is great for a sliding surface wear resistance, but at the same time is brittle. Once something like that is broken, it is all too susceptible to continue to keep cracking. Especially in the sharp inner corners of the area broken out. If you were broken down somewhere in a kind of "Flight Of The Phoenix" situation where the option of a new part was not possible, then would have you use a round file to radius each of those inner corners to stop cracks from forming and spreading from there. Problem is by now the cracks could already be there (and probably are), so if you were to radius the corners the crack might be already beyond that point that you file out. So the cracking could continue...
With the new part you will have the flange last better and longer. After all that rod is moving up and down thousands of times a minute, all the while the lower end of the rod is sitting on a outer edge of a rotating shaft that wants to shove the rod end sideways.
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Last edited by Eric&Barb on Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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crankbait09
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Joined: October 10, 2016
Posts: 1304
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:56 am Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| crankbait09 wrote: |
If you fast forward to the 50 second mark, this guy starts talking about the set up that I have. (middle cooler). He mentions needing washers. Can anyone validate this? According to the link you provided, it doesn't mention washers being used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs9GFxayyUA |
That is a new one for us! That cooler has the later bigger oil passages and as he says it is designed to be used on the later cases with bigger passages. So if one uses it with the earlier small passage engine case, washers and 8 to 10 mm converter seals must be used. |
I will double check my sizes this weekend. I checked the other day, and from what I can see, the studs are 6mm, while the cooler openings were 8mm. I will confirm these numbers this weekend when I proceed forward.
I ordered some 8mm spring washers from my local fastener supplier. I can place those washers where they belong and start tightening up the outer engine parts. Now it might feel like I'm making progress.
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Zundfolge1432 
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Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12468
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:48 am Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| crankbait09 wrote: |
If you fast forward to the 50 second mark, this guy starts talking about the set up that I have. (middle cooler). He mentions needing washers. Can anyone validate this? According to the link you provided, it doesn't mention washers being used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs9GFxayyUA |
That is a new one for us! That cooler has the later bigger oil passages and as he says it is designed to be used on the later cases with bigger passages. So if one uses it with the earlier small passage engine case, washers and 8 to 10 mm converter seals must be used. |
Wow what a blast from the past, that’s Dan from Ocean Street Video. Notice he’s tough doesn’t wear gloves😀. The cooler on far right is 1970 one year only and it is best choice if you didn’t want to upgrade to doghouse. Seen the washer trick and it does prevent you from squeezing a seal too much, have heard of them being restricted nearly closed. Dan, myself, Glenn and Bill May used to hang at another place 20 years ago before we could even post pics. Dan has a whole series of videos the one on engine tear down and rebuild is worth watching. The Hoover bit was missing in that video, if it was me I’d drill the ears on that earlier case and use doghouse including all the associated sheet metal. |
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crankbait09
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Joined: October 10, 2016
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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i've got his videos saved in my you tube library, which is how I came across the oil cooler question. Good videos
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crankbait09
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Joined: October 10, 2016
Posts: 1304
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:12 am Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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ok, before I clamp this oil cooler in to place. My oil cooler passage ways are 8mm. the holes in the case are 8mm as well. So if I use the two 8mm tube looking spacers, this pump should go right in to place. If you look at the photos at the beginning of this thread, I posted pictures of what the PO used (also shown below). I think I see why. When I place the cooler on my two spacers, there is quite a bit of gap between the case and the cooler. Sure this will close up once tightened, but I find it hard to believe it will clamp the same all the way around. Since I see one article that says no washer used, and another saying to use them.....How do I know what I need to do? Here is a picture of the spacers that fir 8mm to 8mm and they are in place.
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
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Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:38 am Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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You know by the fact you are running 8 to 8 mm passages. Properly torque down the nuts and enjoy.
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crankbait09
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:47 am Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| You know by the fact you are running 8 to 8 mm passages. Properly torque down the nuts and enjoy. |
no washers needed for spacers then?
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Cusser
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Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:13 am Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| You know by the fact you are running 8 to 8 mm passages. Properly torque down the nuts and enjoy. |
Right.
No, you shouldn't need any spacers. Don't overtighten the nuts; the oil cooler should look pretty even on the case when tight.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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crankbait09
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Joined: October 10, 2016
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:12 am Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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ahhh, thank you
I tightened with the two black seals only and it all closed nicely.
Here is the current status.
I still need to adjust rocker arms before tightening those, but I will come back to that.
I noticed with the 3 arm yolk engine stand, it does not allow me to place the cylinder tin on. has anyone figured out a way to install that? I think at this point, in order to do so, I will have to get it to the ground and work on it from there.
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67rustavenger
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Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9772
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:33 am Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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| crankbait09 wrote: |
I noticed with the 3 arm yolk engine stand, it does not allow me to place the cylinder tin on. has anyone figured out a way to install that? I think at this point, in order to do so, I will have to get it to the ground and work on it from there.
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Yup. I ran into that exact issue last April. I cut a 1/2-3/4" section out of the support so I could install the tins while the engine was on the stand.
The cut does not appear to have caused any adverse weakness on the yoke.
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crankbait09
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Joined: October 10, 2016
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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I ordered two "heater hose grommets" #113 119 571 for my engine. I can't figure out how these snap in to place, or if they do at all. Can someone post pictures on how these are secured? I searched through the engine photo gallery, have found the grommets installed but no close ups for details.
Also, Can anyone provide a close up of the "oil filler grommet" #111 115 491. I need to see how that gets installed.
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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| crankbait09 wrote: |
I ordered two "heater hose grommets" #113 119 571 for my engine. I can't figure out how these snap in to place, or if they do at all. Can someone post pictures on how these are secured? I searched through the engine photo gallery, have found the grommets installed but no close ups for details.
Also, Can anyone provide a close up of the "oil filler grommet" #111 115 491. I need to see how that gets installed. |
Those go over the fresh air tubes and are snug to the tubes like socks are snug to your legs. Get them in place and slide down to seal them to the tin.
Oil filler grommet goes over the down draft tube and is snug to that tube, again just like socks. Install the gen/alt stand and slide grommet down the tube into the opening of the sheet metal.
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crankbait09
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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I recently purchased a NOS muffler. The gray paint that is on it, has been scraped off in certain spots. I was going to paint the muffler with BBQ paint from HD. Before I do that, do I need to sand the whole thing, or primer it? Or can I paint and call it a day?
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Eric&Barb
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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| crankbait09 wrote: |
| I recently purchased a NOS muffler. The gray paint that is on it, has been scraped off in certain spots. I was going to paint the muffler with BBQ paint from HD. Before I do that, do I need to sand the whole thing, or primer it? Or can I paint and call it a day? |
Painting over paint that is just going to fall off is not a good foundation for a high temp paint. Would you build a large house on only sand, in a in an area known for water flooding thru on a regular basis??
Think that the only way you might get enough bang for your buck and time is to have it ceramic coated. Problem is, have yet to hear of such a coating that will coat the inside.
The stock mufflers tend to rust out from the inside out more than from the outside in. To stretch out the muffler lifespan, you want to get the engine up to operating temp to help boil out the water that occurs from burning air and fuel together. A HOT muffler is going to dry out the inside, while a cold muffler will have water vapor condensate on the inner surfaces and then just sit in the lowest parts of the muffler causing rust till the next time you get the engine up to a high enough temp to boil out the muffler.
If you have several errands to drive around town, it is best to make the last stop farthest away from your garage, barn, shop, etc.. That way you have the best chance to get the muffler up to temp and as dry as possible before parking it for over night or day or weeks. Really this works for any automobile that has an exhaust system made of steel.
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crankbait09
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:48 am Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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this might be a loaded question with no simple answers but I'll ask.
Right now the engine is still on the stand. I need to get it off the stand so I can install the #3/4 cylinder tin. The 3 arm yoke stops this. So before I can drop it, I need to install everything that would be on the underside of the engine that couldn't easily be done when installed in the vehicle.
Right now, I will install the sleds, heater boxes, and any other lower tin pieces I have. Including the thermostat bracket.
Is there anything else that you can think of that would need to go on NOW, before lowering it to the ground? I'm trying not to add much weight since I'm lowering by hand. So the minimal is best. But if it has to go on, then it is what it is.
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Eric&Barb
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:02 am Post subject: Re: My first engine removal........questions |
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Put the engine down on a crossed stack of 4x4s and/or 2x4" or screw together a frame work made of those. Size the stack or frame work the same or just under the size of the bottom of the engine case. Then install the rest of the parts on the long block.
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