Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter.
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Busstom
Samba Member


Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3853
Location: San Jose, CA
Busstom is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

iowa vw wrote:
Using a hole saw will destroy the option to use the cut out as the lid. If you use a cut off wheel or reciprocating saw you can use the cut out as the lid keeping all of the original metal and strength from the ribs in the lid. Obviosuly this will not be able to overlap but welding/bolting in a frame around the new hole will give you a lip to bolt it to and put the seal on.

In the pic below I created a frame out of 1 inch square tube and then a surround with 1 inch flat stock to have the cover bolt to (welded nuts) and 3M weather stripping that clamps on the edge of the flat stock. The frame is welded to the bottom of the luggage area. The original steel that was cut out is the lid and keeps the strength, sound deadener is put on the lid and is the allen bolt heads are the same height as the sound deadening so it doesn't affect the carpet. I think there are like 12 bolts around the perimeter.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


That's starting to shape up nicely. I don't see any butchery going on there.

EDIT: Ahhhh, Page 5! Very Happy


Last edited by Busstom on Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Digger89L
Samba Member


Joined: May 16, 2013
Posts: 1130
Location: Western Canada (SK)
Digger89L is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

RIGHT ON, ZenVWDriver .....I'm an older guy too, and I understand the 'agility issues' of which you speak! I prefer to stand on my feet, not on my head!!!
_________________
"If you can't fix it with pop rivets, crazy glue and duct tape, or hold it together with zip ties, velcro or magnets, it REALLY is broken."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bluebus86
Banned


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075

bluebus86 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Sharp64 wrote:
Last word


Evidently you were premature in your proclamation. Surprised


Keepa Buggin!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BIGMIKEY
Samba Member


Joined: September 24, 2007
Posts: 1105
Location: North East Pennsylvania
BIGMIKEY is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
Sharp64 wrote:
Last word


Evidently you were premature in your proclamation. Surprised


Keepa Buggin!


Premature Enunciation. Embarassed Very sad.

Mike T
_________________
BIGMIKEY

Deserter Series 1 project.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=787047&highlight=

1973 Beetle Driver, Marina Blue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sharp64
Samba Member


Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
Sharp64 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
Sharp64 wrote:
Last word


Evidently you were premature in your proclamation. Surprised


Keepa Buggin!


I knew I wouldn’t be let down....
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Tim Donahoe
Samba Member


Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 11740
Location: Redding, CA
Tim Donahoe is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

I own a 1974 Super Beetle. The back half of the car is exactly like a Standard Bug.

The only issue I see with an access door is the fact that my rear seat back would make it rather uncomfortable to lay over and reach down from an access panel. My seat back does not fold down flat.

I could remove the seat bottom, then the seat back, and no problem. But that’s a pain in the ass. I suppose I could leave the seat back on and, while on my knees, reach over and down, so that might not be much of a stretch. Even so, I could probably have all engine bolts removed before then.

To be honest, I have no problem removing either of the two top bolts. The one on the left is easily removed using a ratchet and two extensions (a six inch and twelve inch. No universal joint necessary. If you know where to place your hands and arms—and where to lay down—it’s extremely easy. Plenty of room to turn the ratchet, too. None of this 1/8 inch stuff.

The right D-bolt is another matter, so I bought a hand wrench that ratchets. The head also swivels. Easy-peasy. I also wrap a small snake of plumber’s putty around the inside head of the D bolt to keep it from turtle-heading on me when reinstalling the nut. I hate when that bolt slips back when trying to screw the nut on, you know.

However, anyone who wants an access panel, go for it. It’s your bug. Do as you please. If an upper access makes your wrenching easier, more power to you. I’ve owned buses with and without the access panel. The upper access makes it far easier to work on the engine.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cusser
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31380
Location: Hot Arizona
Cusser is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

I removed my first VW engine in 1971, on my second day as mechanic's helper job.

On non-doghouse engines/cases, I used 17mm socket on the two top nuts.

With doghouse engines/cases, I use 17mm ratcheting box wrench for right side, and from underneath use ratchet and two extensions like Tim Donahoe

Recently on my 1970 with doghouse engine, I bought an allen head bolt so I use an 8mm allen socket now on that engine.

For the bottom two nuts I still use my 17mm box end of my 1971-purchased JC Penney Penncraft combination wrench set - why not - it's lifetime guaranteed !!
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wayne S. Johnson
Samba Member


Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 1265
Location: GILROY, CA
Wayne S. Johnson is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

An 8mm Allen head bolt sounds good for my access hole.
_________________
Additional products https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=Wayne+S.+Johnson
Additional products with Bluetooth http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2097231


Last edited by Wayne S. Johnson on Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bluebus86
Banned


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075

bluebus86 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Wayne S. Johnson wrote:
An 8mm Allen socket sounds good for my access hole.


Allen socket for what? Im confused. Please elaborate.

Bug On!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wayne S. Johnson
Samba Member


Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 1265
Location: GILROY, CA
Wayne S. Johnson is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
Wayne S. Johnson wrote:
An 8mm Allen socket sounds good for my access hole.


Allen socket for what? Im confused. Please elaborate.

Bug On!


Me too....An 8mm Allen head bolt instead of a hex head bolt may be easer to install.
_________________
Additional products https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=Wayne+S.+Johnson
Additional products with Bluetooth http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2097231
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
RareAir
Samba Member


Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 14577
Location: 18 miles North of the border
RareAir is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:34 am    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

I decided I want an access hole, but I may have mis-measured

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Just joking, I needed to clearance for the Berg 5-speed nose cone. The cleanest access cover install would be just to graft in a panel from a Pre ‘52 donor. I believe there are several vendors that sell the panel
_________________
1947 Typ 11a
1954 Typ 117
1956 Typ 151
1959 Typ 117
1959 Typ 265
1961 356B
1966 Typ 151
1966 Typ 241
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Digger89L
Samba Member


Joined: May 16, 2013
Posts: 1130
Location: Western Canada (SK)
Digger89L is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Can someone post a photo of which engine mount bolt(s) would be accessed thru an 'access panel' ...and the approximate location that panel would be on the rear luggage shelf? Thanks
_________________
"If you can't fix it with pop rivets, crazy glue and duct tape, or hold it together with zip ties, velcro or magnets, it REALLY is broken."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cusser
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31380
Location: Hot Arizona
Cusser is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Wayne S. Johnson wrote:
I want to cut an access hole over my 66 Beetle 1600 engine upper left mounting bolt and starter.


1. Note that the 1835cc engine in my 1971 has not needed removal in over a decade. And as I noted previously the two upper engine connections are not difficult to access.

2. I've had my 1970 since 1972 , and my 1971 since 1976, and each of them has required the starter to be replaced exactly once each.

SO I just don't think cutting an access panel is worth it, and would be somewhat awkward to use anyway.

Now, little access holes for dual carbs or for #3/#4 spark plugs on VWs with add-on AC compressors: yes.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Busstom
Samba Member


Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3853
Location: San Jose, CA
Busstom is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Hey Wayne, how you holding up in this frickin heat??

Anyway, the ones you're referring to would actually be considered upper "right", over the starter.

The idea of using what is formally and industrially-wide named and referred to as a "Socket Head Cap Screw" is a good one: the purpose of using it in your circumstance is that the bit that you would use to engage that screw is essentially self-holding once you have it inserted and mated to the screw, i.e., it won't tend to slip off and drop like a standard socket would over a typical hex head cap screw. Edit: I forgot to note, another benefit is, you can engage a standard L-wrench, let go of it because it is self-holding, and then go above and loosen/tighten the nut because the L-wrench will rotate and then wedge against something and prevent the bolt from turning (edit complete).

P.S., more to come, I'm off editing...

So, continuing on: the other place that a socket head cap screw works well is on the upper left (driver's side) when you upgrade to the doghouse cooler, but still have the earlier tranny, which has the notched landing for the specified bolt head (it held the bolt still while one tightens from above...with a doghouse cooler, one tightens below, but a hex head screw doesn't "land" properly on the pre-doghouse trannies). Many people just grind the area of the bolt head surface so a hex head cap screw fits, but a socket head cap screw is a great solution if you don't have the trans out, and you don't want to lie on your back grinding.

All that said, yes, once you were to buy and install a socket head cap screw for securing the starter and upper-right engine quadrant, you need the appropriate hex bit that attaches to a 3/8" square drive. However, just note that it doesn't improve your access, it just allows the hex bit to stay more securely in the bolt head once you DO crawl under there and get it engaged. You're still using extensions, and you're still crawling/reaching.

Also, I think an access would be nice right there to access starter wiring for potential troubleshooting down the road, though I've never needed it for engine pulls.

Another edit: I also forgot to mention, there is a specified "D" head bolt that goes over your starter and that in itself prevents turning of the bolt, allowing one-man operation from above with a wrench over nut Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wayne S. Johnson
Samba Member


Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 1265
Location: GILROY, CA
Wayne S. Johnson is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Busstom wrote:
Hey Wayne, how you holding up in this frickin heat??



I got up at 7:00 AM and ran the tractor for two hours. It got up to 104° yesterday, will be hotter today.
_________________
Additional products https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=Wayne+S.+Johnson
Additional products with Bluetooth http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2097231
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Busstom
Samba Member


Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3853
Location: San Jose, CA
Busstom is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Wayne S. Johnson wrote:
Busstom wrote:
Hey Wayne, how you holding up in this frickin heat??



I got up at 7:00 AM and ran the tractor for two hours. It got up to 104° yesterday, will be hotter today.

I guess we shouldn't complain, the boys on here who are dealing with much worse will shut us down real quick-like. Embarassed
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cusser
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31380
Location: Hot Arizona
Cusser is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Wayne S. Johnson wrote:
Busstom wrote:
Hey Wayne, how you holding up in this frickin heat??



I got up at 7:00 AM and ran the tractor for two hours. It got up to 104° yesterday, will be hotter today.


111 °F in the shade Friday in Phoenix.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bluebus86
Banned


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075

bluebus86 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Busstom wrote:
Hey Wayne, how you holding up in this frickin heat??

Anyway, the ones you're referring to would actually be considered upper "right", over the starter.

The idea of using what is formally and industrially-wide named and referred to as a "Socket Head Cap Screw" is a good one: the purpose of using it in your circumstance is that the bit that you would use to engage that screw is essentially self-holding once you have it inserted and mated to the screw, i.e., it won't tend to slip off and drop like a standard socket would over a typical hex head cap screw. Edit: I forgot to note, another benefit is, you can engage a standard L-wrench, let go of it because it is self-holding, and then go above and loosen/tighten the nut because the L-wrench will rotate and then wedge against something and prevent the bolt from turning (edit complete).

P.S., more to come, I'm off editing...

So, continuing on: the other place that a socket head cap screw works well is on the upper left (driver's side) when you upgrade to the doghouse cooler, but still have the earlier tranny, which has the notched landing for the specified bolt head (it held the bolt still while one tightens from above...with a doghouse cooler, one tightens below, but a hex head screw doesn't "land" properly on the pre-doghouse trannies). Many people just grind the area of the bolt head surface so a hex head cap screw fits, but a socket head cap screw is a great solution if you don't have the trans out, and you don't want to lie on your back grinding.

All that said, yes, once you were to buy and install a socket head cap screw for securing the starter and upper-right engine quadrant, you need the appropriate hex bit that attaches to a 3/8" square drive. However, just note that it doesn't improve your access, it just allows the hex bit to stay more securely in the bolt head once you DO crawl under there and get it engaged. You're still using extensions, and you're still crawling/reaching.

Also, I think an access would be nice right there to access starter wiring for potential troubleshooting down the road, though I've never needed it for engine pulls.

Another edit: I also forgot to mention, there is a specified "D" head bolt that goes over your starter and that in itself prevents turning of the bolt, allowing one-man operation from above with a wrench over nut Wink


yup, the captive bolt or D head bolt makes it a one side job, that was mentioned on page one. but I thought the plan was for installing an access hole, in which case the captive bolt is not needed?

Bug On!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cusser
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31380
Location: Hot Arizona
Cusser is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Remember: one can make chisels out of screwdrivers, and screwdrivers out of chisel if one really wants....
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bluebus86
Banned


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075

bluebus86 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
Remember: one can make chisels out of screwdrivers, and screwdrivers out of chisel if one really wants....


MacGyver can do anything

Bug On!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 5 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.