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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3853 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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iowa vw wrote: |
Using a hole saw will destroy the option to use the cut out as the lid. If you use a cut off wheel or reciprocating saw you can use the cut out as the lid keeping all of the original metal and strength from the ribs in the lid. Obviosuly this will not be able to overlap but welding/bolting in a frame around the new hole will give you a lip to bolt it to and put the seal on.
In the pic below I created a frame out of 1 inch square tube and then a surround with 1 inch flat stock to have the cover bolt to (welded nuts) and 3M weather stripping that clamps on the edge of the flat stock. The frame is welded to the bottom of the luggage area. The original steel that was cut out is the lid and keeps the strength, sound deadener is put on the lid and is the allen bolt heads are the same height as the sound deadening so it doesn't affect the carpet. I think there are like 12 bolts around the perimeter.
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That's starting to shape up nicely. I don't see any butchery going on there.
EDIT: Ahhhh, Page 5!
Last edited by Busstom on Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Digger89L Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2013 Posts: 1130 Location: Western Canada (SK)
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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RIGHT ON, ZenVWDriver .....I'm an older guy too, and I understand the 'agility issues' of which you speak! I prefer to stand on my feet, not on my head!!! _________________ "If you can't fix it with pop rivets, crazy glue and duct tape, or hold it together with zip ties, velcro or magnets, it REALLY is broken." |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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BIGMIKEY Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007 Posts: 1105 Location: North East Pennsylvania
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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bluebus86 wrote: |
Evidently you were premature in your proclamation.
Keepa Buggin! |
Premature Enunciation. Very sad.
Mike T _________________ BIGMIKEY
Deserter Series 1 project.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=787047&highlight=
1973 Beetle Driver, Marina Blue. |
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Sharp64 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 5304 Location: Central Florida
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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bluebus86 wrote: |
Evidently you were premature in your proclamation.
Keepa Buggin! |
I knew I wouldn’t be let down.... _________________ 1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11740 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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I own a 1974 Super Beetle. The back half of the car is exactly like a Standard Bug.
The only issue I see with an access door is the fact that my rear seat back would make it rather uncomfortable to lay over and reach down from an access panel. My seat back does not fold down flat.
I could remove the seat bottom, then the seat back, and no problem. But that’s a pain in the ass. I suppose I could leave the seat back on and, while on my knees, reach over and down, so that might not be much of a stretch. Even so, I could probably have all engine bolts removed before then.
To be honest, I have no problem removing either of the two top bolts. The one on the left is easily removed using a ratchet and two extensions (a six inch and twelve inch. No universal joint necessary. If you know where to place your hands and arms—and where to lay down—it’s extremely easy. Plenty of room to turn the ratchet, too. None of this 1/8 inch stuff.
The right D-bolt is another matter, so I bought a hand wrench that ratchets. The head also swivels. Easy-peasy. I also wrap a small snake of plumber’s putty around the inside head of the D bolt to keep it from turtle-heading on me when reinstalling the nut. I hate when that bolt slips back when trying to screw the nut on, you know.
However, anyone who wants an access panel, go for it. It’s your bug. Do as you please. If an upper access makes your wrenching easier, more power to you. I’ve owned buses with and without the access panel. The upper access makes it far easier to work on the engine.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31380 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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I removed my first VW engine in 1971, on my second day as mechanic's helper job.
On non-doghouse engines/cases, I used 17mm socket on the two top nuts.
With doghouse engines/cases, I use 17mm ratcheting box wrench for right side, and from underneath use ratchet and two extensions like Tim Donahoe
Recently on my 1970 with doghouse engine, I bought an allen head bolt so I use an 8mm allen socket now on that engine.
For the bottom two nuts I still use my 17mm box end of my 1971-purchased JC Penney Penncraft combination wrench set - why not - it's lifetime guaranteed !! _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Wayne S. Johnson Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 1265 Location: GILROY, CA
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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Wayne S. Johnson wrote: |
An 8mm Allen socket sounds good for my access hole. |
Allen socket for what? Im confused. Please elaborate.
Bug On! _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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Wayne S. Johnson Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 1265 Location: GILROY, CA
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RareAir Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2002 Posts: 14577 Location: 18 miles North of the border
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:34 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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I decided I want an access hole, but I may have mis-measured
Just joking, I needed to clearance for the Berg 5-speed nose cone. The cleanest access cover install would be just to graft in a panel from a Pre ‘52 donor. I believe there are several vendors that sell the panel _________________ 1947 Typ 11a
1954 Typ 117
1956 Typ 151
1959 Typ 117
1959 Typ 265
1961 356B
1966 Typ 151
1966 Typ 241 |
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Digger89L Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2013 Posts: 1130 Location: Western Canada (SK)
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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Can someone post a photo of which engine mount bolt(s) would be accessed thru an 'access panel' ...and the approximate location that panel would be on the rear luggage shelf? Thanks _________________ "If you can't fix it with pop rivets, crazy glue and duct tape, or hold it together with zip ties, velcro or magnets, it REALLY is broken." |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31380 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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Wayne S. Johnson wrote: |
I want to cut an access hole over my 66 Beetle 1600 engine upper left mounting bolt and starter. |
1. Note that the 1835cc engine in my 1971 has not needed removal in over a decade. And as I noted previously the two upper engine connections are not difficult to access.
2. I've had my 1970 since 1972 , and my 1971 since 1976, and each of them has required the starter to be replaced exactly once each.
SO I just don't think cutting an access panel is worth it, and would be somewhat awkward to use anyway.
Now, little access holes for dual carbs or for #3/#4 spark plugs on VWs with add-on AC compressors: yes. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3853 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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Hey Wayne, how you holding up in this frickin heat??
Anyway, the ones you're referring to would actually be considered upper "right", over the starter.
The idea of using what is formally and industrially-wide named and referred to as a "Socket Head Cap Screw" is a good one: the purpose of using it in your circumstance is that the bit that you would use to engage that screw is essentially self-holding once you have it inserted and mated to the screw, i.e., it won't tend to slip off and drop like a standard socket would over a typical hex head cap screw. Edit: I forgot to note, another benefit is, you can engage a standard L-wrench, let go of it because it is self-holding, and then go above and loosen/tighten the nut because the L-wrench will rotate and then wedge against something and prevent the bolt from turning (edit complete).
P.S., more to come, I'm off editing...
So, continuing on: the other place that a socket head cap screw works well is on the upper left (driver's side) when you upgrade to the doghouse cooler, but still have the earlier tranny, which has the notched landing for the specified bolt head (it held the bolt still while one tightens from above...with a doghouse cooler, one tightens below, but a hex head screw doesn't "land" properly on the pre-doghouse trannies). Many people just grind the area of the bolt head surface so a hex head cap screw fits, but a socket head cap screw is a great solution if you don't have the trans out, and you don't want to lie on your back grinding.
All that said, yes, once you were to buy and install a socket head cap screw for securing the starter and upper-right engine quadrant, you need the appropriate hex bit that attaches to a 3/8" square drive. However, just note that it doesn't improve your access, it just allows the hex bit to stay more securely in the bolt head once you DO crawl under there and get it engaged. You're still using extensions, and you're still crawling/reaching.
Also, I think an access would be nice right there to access starter wiring for potential troubleshooting down the road, though I've never needed it for engine pulls.
Another edit: I also forgot to mention, there is a specified "D" head bolt that goes over your starter and that in itself prevents turning of the bolt, allowing one-man operation from above with a wrench over nut |
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Wayne S. Johnson Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 1265 Location: GILROY, CA
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3853 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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Wayne S. Johnson wrote: |
Busstom wrote: |
Hey Wayne, how you holding up in this frickin heat??
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I got up at 7:00 AM and ran the tractor for two hours. It got up to 104° yesterday, will be hotter today. |
I guess we shouldn't complain, the boys on here who are dealing with much worse will shut us down real quick-like. |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31380 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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Wayne S. Johnson wrote: |
Busstom wrote: |
Hey Wayne, how you holding up in this frickin heat??
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I got up at 7:00 AM and ran the tractor for two hours. It got up to 104° yesterday, will be hotter today. |
111 °F in the shade Friday in Phoenix. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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Busstom wrote: |
Hey Wayne, how you holding up in this frickin heat??
Anyway, the ones you're referring to would actually be considered upper "right", over the starter.
The idea of using what is formally and industrially-wide named and referred to as a "Socket Head Cap Screw" is a good one: the purpose of using it in your circumstance is that the bit that you would use to engage that screw is essentially self-holding once you have it inserted and mated to the screw, i.e., it won't tend to slip off and drop like a standard socket would over a typical hex head cap screw. Edit: I forgot to note, another benefit is, you can engage a standard L-wrench, let go of it because it is self-holding, and then go above and loosen/tighten the nut because the L-wrench will rotate and then wedge against something and prevent the bolt from turning (edit complete).
P.S., more to come, I'm off editing...
So, continuing on: the other place that a socket head cap screw works well is on the upper left (driver's side) when you upgrade to the doghouse cooler, but still have the earlier tranny, which has the notched landing for the specified bolt head (it held the bolt still while one tightens from above...with a doghouse cooler, one tightens below, but a hex head screw doesn't "land" properly on the pre-doghouse trannies). Many people just grind the area of the bolt head surface so a hex head cap screw fits, but a socket head cap screw is a great solution if you don't have the trans out, and you don't want to lie on your back grinding.
All that said, yes, once you were to buy and install a socket head cap screw for securing the starter and upper-right engine quadrant, you need the appropriate hex bit that attaches to a 3/8" square drive. However, just note that it doesn't improve your access, it just allows the hex bit to stay more securely in the bolt head once you DO crawl under there and get it engaged. You're still using extensions, and you're still crawling/reaching.
Also, I think an access would be nice right there to access starter wiring for potential troubleshooting down the road, though I've never needed it for engine pulls.
Another edit: I also forgot to mention, there is a specified "D" head bolt that goes over your starter and that in itself prevents turning of the bolt, allowing one-man operation from above with a wrench over nut |
yup, the captive bolt or D head bolt makes it a one side job, that was mentioned on page one. but I thought the plan was for installing an access hole, in which case the captive bolt is not needed?
Bug On! _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31380 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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Remember: one can make chisels out of screwdrivers, and screwdrivers out of chisel if one really wants.... _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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Cusser wrote: |
Remember: one can make chisels out of screwdrivers, and screwdrivers out of chisel if one really wants.... |
MacGyver can do anything
Bug On! _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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