Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Type 3 Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Cashed
Samba Member


Joined: June 04, 2017
Posts: 77
Location: Camas, WA
Cashed is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:49 am    Post subject: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

Hello,

I tried searching this topic, but found nothing substantial. I checked my oil today, and noticed it was particularly runny and smelled like gas. I know I need to changed it, but before I change the oil, I’d like to know why the fuel is getting in there and how to stop it.

Thanks,
_________________
1971 Type 2 - Westfalia - https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/12207380
1966 Type 1 - Sunroof “Cream Puff” - sold
1970 Type 2 - Tintop Camper - sold
1972 Type 3 - FI/Automatic “Kürbis” - sold
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33820
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

Most common is a leaky cold start jet. Since 99% of owners don't need it, I'd pull the hose off the jet (right side of IAD), and plug it securely.

Change the oil. Then see if it reoccurs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Mike Fisher
Samba Member


Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17961
Location: Eugene, OR
Mike Fisher is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

It happened on mine, when the steel gas return line on the right side got plugged up.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cashed
Samba Member


Joined: June 04, 2017
Posts: 77
Location: Camas, WA
Cashed is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

Looks like someone has already done me the favor of removing the cold start injector. I’ll look at the fuel return lines. Could a fuel injector be bad?
_________________
1971 Type 2 - Westfalia - https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/12207380
1966 Type 1 - Sunroof “Cream Puff” - sold
1970 Type 2 - Tintop Camper - sold
1972 Type 3 - FI/Automatic “Kürbis” - sold
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33820
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

Yes, it's possible that an injector is sticking open, and then bleeds out the line until pressure is zero. Then that gas could then make its way past the rings, and finally end up in the crankcase oil supply.

I haven't observed it, but that's the only way I can imagine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Tram
Samba Socialist


Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22683
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
Tram is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

Check the fuel pressure. If it's running too high you have a return obstruction. If pressure bleeds off after shut down you may have a pissy injector.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.

Bryan67 wrote:
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools.


To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cashed
Samba Member


Joined: June 04, 2017
Posts: 77
Location: Camas, WA
Cashed is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:56 am    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

Turns out there’s a leaky injector. I have an extra set that appear to be Mercedes - Bosch 0260 150 007, but they are pretty beat up. I have looked without much success for a set of rebuilt VW Type 3 injectors. What’s the best replacement? Go for another set of Mercedes? Try to rebuild the ones I have. Any suggestions?
_________________
1971 Type 2 - Westfalia - https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/12207380
1966 Type 1 - Sunroof “Cream Puff” - sold
1970 Type 2 - Tintop Camper - sold
1972 Type 3 - FI/Automatic “Kürbis” - sold
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33820
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:49 am    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

If the Bosch numbers are good for your application, it doesn't matter if they cam from a Mercedes. The flow rates are all that matters. Someone posted a chart with flow rates of various injectors, but I can't find it now.
Is your engine still 1600cc, or is it larger?
There are outfits that can clean and flow test your injectors.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ataraxia
Samba Member


Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
ataraxia is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

Cashed wrote:
Turns out there’s a leaky injector. I have an extra set that appear to be Mercedes - Bosch 0260 150 007, but they are pretty beat up. I have looked without much success for a set of rebuilt VW Type 3 injectors. What’s the best replacement? Go for another set of Mercedes? Try to rebuild the ones I have. Any suggestions?


I know of a handful of people who've used these guys to 'rebuild' them:
https://witchhunter.com/injectorfaq1.php
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Tram
Samba Socialist


Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22683
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
Tram is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

Cashed wrote:
Turns out there’s a leaky injector. I have an extra set that appear to be Mercedes - Bosch 0260 150 007, but they are pretty beat up. I have looked without much success for a set of rebuilt VW Type 3 injectors. What’s the best replacement? Go for another set of Mercedes? Try to rebuild the ones I have. Any suggestions?


If they're the yellow tipped ones they should sub. If they're green/ blue they're too rich.

Test them with a 9v battery. If they "click" with authority they should be OK.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.

Bryan67 wrote:
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools.


To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vwsquare2
Samba Member


Joined: February 16, 2016
Posts: 104
Location: Pennsylvania
vwsquare2 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

Autozone carries GP Sorensen Fuel Injectors. Model 800-1113N. They are listed as compatible with all of the Type 3 FI from 1968 to 1973 so should be O.K. for your 1972 as long as you have the stock setup.

I've had them for 2 years without any problems but I've only put a few hundred miles on the car due to other issues not related to the engine. They do carry a 3 year warranty so there is some protection.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Intrinsic
Samba Member


Joined: November 16, 2011
Posts: 262
Location: Clearwater, FL
Intrinsic is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

Those GP Sorensen Fuel Injectors. Model 800-1113N injectors look very much like the Standard Motor Parts FJ119 injectors which I run on my 70 Fastback. I have used them for many years with my MegaSquirt FI with no problems.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cashed
Samba Member


Joined: June 04, 2017
Posts: 77
Location: Camas, WA
Cashed is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

vwsquare2 wrote:
Autozone carries GP Sorensen Fuel Injectors. Model 800-1113N. They are listed as compatible with all of the Type 3 FI from 1968 to 1973 so should be O.K. for your 1972 as long as you have the stock setup.

I've had them for 2 years without any problems but I've only put a few hundred miles on the car due to other issues not related to the engine. They do carry a 3 year warranty so there is some protection.



Great info - I’ll go get a set and give them a whirl.

Tram - the Mercedes ones I had as back up are toast.

Thanks everyone for the information. I’ll try them out and update.
_________________
1971 Type 2 - Westfalia - https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/12207380
1966 Type 1 - Sunroof “Cream Puff” - sold
1970 Type 2 - Tintop Camper - sold
1972 Type 3 - FI/Automatic “Kürbis” - sold
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Clyde Maddox
Samba Member


Joined: January 09, 2005
Posts: 31
Location: Athens, Ga.
Clyde Maddox is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

No start. Fuel in gas. I have a new set of the standard motor products FJ119 injectors. Temp sensor and pressure sensor measure good with ohm meter and pressure sensor holds vacuum.
Fuel pressure measures 30 during starter operation, but bleeds to zero within seconds of key off. Injectors pulse squirt with the starter when pulled out of engine (condenser disconnected). Shouldn't the injectors close once the key is off?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21462
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

Clyde Maddox wrote:
No start. Fuel in gas. I have a new set of the standard motor products FJ119 injectors. Temp sensor and pressure sensor measure good with ohm meter and pressure sensor holds vacuum.
Fuel pressure measures 30 during starter operation, but bleeds to zero within seconds of key off. Injectors pulse squirt with the starter when pulled out of engine (condenser disconnected). Shouldn't the injectors close once the key is off?


Yes...injectors should close when key is off.

If you did not already know you had fuel in your oil.....I would say first to check the fuel pressure regulator and then the fuel pump check valve.....but with fuel in your oil.....your testing is halfway done.

Either an injector is sticking open or your cold start jet/injector is sticking open. Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Clyde Maddox
Samba Member


Joined: January 09, 2005
Posts: 31
Location: Athens, Ga.
Clyde Maddox is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

It's a 69 T3 with no cold start valve. And my noid light stays on when key is on, engine not running. So that rules out a sticky injector.
Run the starter and it'll pulse like it's supposed to, but when key is off, there seems to always be an injector staying open, dumping the residual pressure.
I'm wondering if there's something in the ecu sending a signal when it's not supposed to? Or maybe a relay is stuck?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33820
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

Clyde Maddox wrote:
It's a 69 T3 with no cold start valve. And my noid light stays on when key is on, engine not running. So that rules out a sticky injector.
Run the starter and it'll pulse like it's supposed to, but when key is off, there seems to always be an injector staying open, dumping the residual pressure.
I'm wondering if there's something in the ecu sending a signal when it's not supposed to? Or maybe a relay is stuck?


The thread title says '72, but that was for the OP, not this latest question.

I would check the wiring before condemning the ECU. Remove its connector and check all wires for continuity and shorts.

When did this problem first show up? What changed before that?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Clyde Maddox
Samba Member


Joined: January 09, 2005
Posts: 31
Location: Athens, Ga.
Clyde Maddox is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

I'm thinking it's something with the throttle valve switch. Checked the harness wires 1-17, and couldn't find wire 17, which is supposed to be one of 2 throttle valve switch wires. this car has 4 wires going to this switch: found to actually be 9,18,20 and another that has no continuity at the harness. 69 is only supposed to have 2 wires.
I rotated the switch so the contacts touch when throttle is closed (they weren't before).

I'm tempted to run a new "17" wire from throttle switch to the ecu plug. and only plug 17 and 20 so they're connected when throttle is closed and open once the throttle is opened.

Can't get back to it til Friday though. seems like every time I start making progress there's something that delays closure, like dinner or some emergency. grr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21462
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

Clyde Maddox wrote:
I'm thinking it's something with the throttle valve switch. Checked the harness wires 1-17, and couldn't find wire 17, which is supposed to be one of 2 throttle valve switch wires. this car has 4 wires going to this switch: found to actually be 9,18,20 and another that has no continuity at the harness. 69 is only supposed to have 2 wires.
I rotated the switch so the contacts touch when throttle is closed (they weren't before).

I'm tempted to run a new "17" wire from throttle switch to the ecu plug. and only plug 17 and 20 so they're connected when throttle is closed and open once the throttle is opened.

Can't get back to it til Friday though. seems like every time I start making progress there's something that delays closure, like dinner or some emergency. grr.


While yes.....you do need to make sure your TVS is the right one for your system. ....dont worry about the year.....match the system parts to the ECU #.....you could easily have a later system on your engine.........but......the TVS is incapable of causing iniector cycle.....UNLESS....the key is on and the EFI system is powered up.

So.....check to make sure that when your key is off ....that the EFI system is being fed from switched power and not direct. Someone may have screwed with the wires.

Or....it could be a bad EFI power relay with the contacts fused together...or the wires to the relay are connected wrong.

A quick check......turn off the key and pull it out.....then str9ke the thr9ttle leber open slowly bsck in the engine compartment. If you hear a series of clicks......that means your system is live.

It may be some kind of short in the ignition switch as well. Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Mike Fisher
Samba Member


Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17961
Location: Eugene, OR
Mike Fisher is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto Reply with quote

Fuel in your oil means your steel return line on the passenger side is plugged up. BTDT!
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Type 3 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.