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Cashed Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2017 Posts: 77 Location: Camas, WA
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:49 am Post subject: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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Hello,
I tried searching this topic, but found nothing substantial. I checked my oil today, and noticed it was particularly runny and smelled like gas. I know I need to changed it, but before I change the oil, I’d like to know why the fuel is getting in there and how to stop it.
Thanks, _________________ 1971 Type 2 - Westfalia - https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/12207380
1966 Type 1 - Sunroof “Cream Puff” - sold
1970 Type 2 - Tintop Camper - sold
1972 Type 3 - FI/Automatic “Kürbis” - sold |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33820 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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Most common is a leaky cold start jet. Since 99% of owners don't need it, I'd pull the hose off the jet (right side of IAD), and plug it securely.
Change the oil. Then see if it reoccurs. |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17961 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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It happened on mine, when the steel gas return line on the right side got plugged up. _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Cashed Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2017 Posts: 77 Location: Camas, WA
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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Looks like someone has already done me the favor of removing the cold start injector. I’ll look at the fuel return lines. Could a fuel injector be bad? _________________ 1971 Type 2 - Westfalia - https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/12207380
1966 Type 1 - Sunroof “Cream Puff” - sold
1970 Type 2 - Tintop Camper - sold
1972 Type 3 - FI/Automatic “Kürbis” - sold |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33820 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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Yes, it's possible that an injector is sticking open, and then bleeds out the line until pressure is zero. Then that gas could then make its way past the rings, and finally end up in the crankcase oil supply.
I haven't observed it, but that's the only way I can imagine. |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22683 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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Check the fuel pressure. If it's running too high you have a return obstruction. If pressure bleeds off after shut down you may have a pissy injector. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Cashed Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2017 Posts: 77 Location: Camas, WA
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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Turns out there’s a leaky injector. I have an extra set that appear to be Mercedes - Bosch 0260 150 007, but they are pretty beat up. I have looked without much success for a set of rebuilt VW Type 3 injectors. What’s the best replacement? Go for another set of Mercedes? Try to rebuild the ones I have. Any suggestions? _________________ 1971 Type 2 - Westfalia - https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/12207380
1966 Type 1 - Sunroof “Cream Puff” - sold
1970 Type 2 - Tintop Camper - sold
1972 Type 3 - FI/Automatic “Kürbis” - sold |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33820 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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If the Bosch numbers are good for your application, it doesn't matter if they cam from a Mercedes. The flow rates are all that matters. Someone posted a chart with flow rates of various injectors, but I can't find it now.
Is your engine still 1600cc, or is it larger?
There are outfits that can clean and flow test your injectors. |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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Cashed wrote: |
Turns out there’s a leaky injector. I have an extra set that appear to be Mercedes - Bosch 0260 150 007, but they are pretty beat up. I have looked without much success for a set of rebuilt VW Type 3 injectors. What’s the best replacement? Go for another set of Mercedes? Try to rebuild the ones I have. Any suggestions? |
I know of a handful of people who've used these guys to 'rebuild' them:
https://witchhunter.com/injectorfaq1.php |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22683 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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Cashed wrote: |
Turns out there’s a leaky injector. I have an extra set that appear to be Mercedes - Bosch 0260 150 007, but they are pretty beat up. I have looked without much success for a set of rebuilt VW Type 3 injectors. What’s the best replacement? Go for another set of Mercedes? Try to rebuild the ones I have. Any suggestions? |
If they're the yellow tipped ones they should sub. If they're green/ blue they're too rich.
Test them with a 9v battery. If they "click" with authority they should be OK. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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vwsquare2 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2016 Posts: 104 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:43 am Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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Autozone carries GP Sorensen Fuel Injectors. Model 800-1113N. They are listed as compatible with all of the Type 3 FI from 1968 to 1973 so should be O.K. for your 1972 as long as you have the stock setup.
I've had them for 2 years without any problems but I've only put a few hundred miles on the car due to other issues not related to the engine. They do carry a 3 year warranty so there is some protection. |
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Intrinsic Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2011 Posts: 262 Location: Clearwater, FL
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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Those GP Sorensen Fuel Injectors. Model 800-1113N injectors look very much like the Standard Motor Parts FJ119 injectors which I run on my 70 Fastback. I have used them for many years with my MegaSquirt FI with no problems. |
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Cashed Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2017 Posts: 77 Location: Camas, WA
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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vwsquare2 wrote: |
Autozone carries GP Sorensen Fuel Injectors. Model 800-1113N. They are listed as compatible with all of the Type 3 FI from 1968 to 1973 so should be O.K. for your 1972 as long as you have the stock setup.
I've had them for 2 years without any problems but I've only put a few hundred miles on the car due to other issues not related to the engine. They do carry a 3 year warranty so there is some protection. |
Great info - I’ll go get a set and give them a whirl.
Tram - the Mercedes ones I had as back up are toast.
Thanks everyone for the information. I’ll try them out and update. _________________ 1971 Type 2 - Westfalia - https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/12207380
1966 Type 1 - Sunroof “Cream Puff” - sold
1970 Type 2 - Tintop Camper - sold
1972 Type 3 - FI/Automatic “Kürbis” - sold |
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Clyde Maddox Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2005 Posts: 31 Location: Athens, Ga.
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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No start. Fuel in gas. I have a new set of the standard motor products FJ119 injectors. Temp sensor and pressure sensor measure good with ohm meter and pressure sensor holds vacuum.
Fuel pressure measures 30 during starter operation, but bleeds to zero within seconds of key off. Injectors pulse squirt with the starter when pulled out of engine (condenser disconnected). Shouldn't the injectors close once the key is off? |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21462 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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Clyde Maddox wrote: |
No start. Fuel in gas. I have a new set of the standard motor products FJ119 injectors. Temp sensor and pressure sensor measure good with ohm meter and pressure sensor holds vacuum.
Fuel pressure measures 30 during starter operation, but bleeds to zero within seconds of key off. Injectors pulse squirt with the starter when pulled out of engine (condenser disconnected). Shouldn't the injectors close once the key is off? |
Yes...injectors should close when key is off.
If you did not already know you had fuel in your oil.....I would say first to check the fuel pressure regulator and then the fuel pump check valve.....but with fuel in your oil.....your testing is halfway done.
Either an injector is sticking open or your cold start jet/injector is sticking open. Ray |
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Clyde Maddox Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2005 Posts: 31 Location: Athens, Ga.
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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It's a 69 T3 with no cold start valve. And my noid light stays on when key is on, engine not running. So that rules out a sticky injector.
Run the starter and it'll pulse like it's supposed to, but when key is off, there seems to always be an injector staying open, dumping the residual pressure.
I'm wondering if there's something in the ecu sending a signal when it's not supposed to? Or maybe a relay is stuck? |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33820 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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Clyde Maddox wrote: |
It's a 69 T3 with no cold start valve. And my noid light stays on when key is on, engine not running. So that rules out a sticky injector.
Run the starter and it'll pulse like it's supposed to, but when key is off, there seems to always be an injector staying open, dumping the residual pressure.
I'm wondering if there's something in the ecu sending a signal when it's not supposed to? Or maybe a relay is stuck? |
The thread title says '72, but that was for the OP, not this latest question.
I would check the wiring before condemning the ECU. Remove its connector and check all wires for continuity and shorts.
When did this problem first show up? What changed before that? |
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Clyde Maddox Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2005 Posts: 31 Location: Athens, Ga.
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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I'm thinking it's something with the throttle valve switch. Checked the harness wires 1-17, and couldn't find wire 17, which is supposed to be one of 2 throttle valve switch wires. this car has 4 wires going to this switch: found to actually be 9,18,20 and another that has no continuity at the harness. 69 is only supposed to have 2 wires.
I rotated the switch so the contacts touch when throttle is closed (they weren't before).
I'm tempted to run a new "17" wire from throttle switch to the ecu plug. and only plug 17 and 20 so they're connected when throttle is closed and open once the throttle is opened.
Can't get back to it til Friday though. seems like every time I start making progress there's something that delays closure, like dinner or some emergency. grr. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21462 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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Clyde Maddox wrote: |
I'm thinking it's something with the throttle valve switch. Checked the harness wires 1-17, and couldn't find wire 17, which is supposed to be one of 2 throttle valve switch wires. this car has 4 wires going to this switch: found to actually be 9,18,20 and another that has no continuity at the harness. 69 is only supposed to have 2 wires.
I rotated the switch so the contacts touch when throttle is closed (they weren't before).
I'm tempted to run a new "17" wire from throttle switch to the ecu plug. and only plug 17 and 20 so they're connected when throttle is closed and open once the throttle is opened.
Can't get back to it til Friday though. seems like every time I start making progress there's something that delays closure, like dinner or some emergency. grr. |
While yes.....you do need to make sure your TVS is the right one for your system. ....dont worry about the year.....match the system parts to the ECU #.....you could easily have a later system on your engine.........but......the TVS is incapable of causing iniector cycle.....UNLESS....the key is on and the EFI system is powered up.
So.....check to make sure that when your key is off ....that the EFI system is being fed from switched power and not direct. Someone may have screwed with the wires.
Or....it could be a bad EFI power relay with the contacts fused together...or the wires to the relay are connected wrong.
A quick check......turn off the key and pull it out.....then str9ke the thr9ttle leber open slowly bsck in the engine compartment. If you hear a series of clicks......that means your system is live.
It may be some kind of short in the ignition switch as well. Ray |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17961 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Gas in the Oil - 72’ FI/Auto |
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Fuel in your oil means your steel return line on the passenger side is plugged up. BTDT! _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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