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1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare?
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:05 pm    Post subject: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

Just stumbled upon this. Don't' know seller, blah blah blah. From the ad:

"Options: Reputedly one of 6 brought into Canada by VW for use as transport for their executives. This is the 2.6 litre 5 cylinder, & the engine, along with the rest of the van has been well maintained with invoices to prove. It's mated to a 4 Speed Manual Transmission with a higher gear ratio in 4th for cruising."


https://nanaimo.craigslist.ca/ctd/d/volkswagen-vanagon-caravelle/6621588803.html

At first I assumed it was an engine conversion by a skilled independent but the interior and engine sure look legit to me. That said, I do see a bit of the adaptor plate and have to wonder if its a KEP.

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D Clymer
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

That one is a puzzler. It's a Caravelle Carat - a top of the line "Business" model they never sold in NA. But the body appears to be of NA spec with rear marker lights. So it may very well be that VW of Canada did order it. The part that makes no sense is the 5 cylinder conversion. It's all VW of South Africa components, but VW didn't start putting the 5 cylinder in their Vanagons until 1992 and this is a 1989. My guess is that it was originally a Wasserboxer and someone did an Overland 5 cylinder conversion on it later. The raised lid looks factory, though.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

I'd sure love to have all those trim panels around the windows, pillars and along the ceiling
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D Clymer
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
I'd sure love to have all those trim panels around the windows, pillars and along the ceiling


Yeah, me too. It would solve the wrinkling, peeling, adhesive bleeding problem with the regular glued on vinyl. Those were only used on european Caravelle Carats and unfortunately are very rare.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:48 pm    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

Looks like a Claer rear bumper

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:12 am    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

What's with the serious discoloration of the panels in the above pic., on the hatch as well as the left rear panel, and right rear panel.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:27 am    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

levi wrote:
What's with the serious discoloration of the panels in the above pic., on the hatch as well as the left rear panel, and right rear panel.


The van is listed as having a "rebuilt" status. But that may not be related to that discolouration. To my eye, it sure looks like it was repainted.

I noticed that rear bumper Casey. Seemed odd to me to have two tail pipes for an inline 5 cylinder but whadda I know anyways? Wink

Neil.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:34 am    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

D Clymer wrote:
That one is a puzzler. It's a Caravelle Carat - a top of the line "Business" model they never sold in NA. But the body appears to be of NA spec with rear marker lights. So it may very well be that VW of Canada did order it. The part that makes no sense is the 5 cylinder conversion. It's all VW of South Africa components, but VW didn't start putting the 5 cylinder in their Vanagons until 1992 and this is a 1989. My guess is that it was originally a Wasserboxer and someone did an Overland 5 cylinder conversion on it later. The raised lid looks factory, though.


I agree. this is a tricky one.

The 2,6 actually wasn't available in SA until 1995 and differs from the 2,5 in having electronic injection (the 2,5 had the old Bosch K-jetronic) and this is definitely the 2,6 injection.

Rear marker light is an easy thing to retrofit, and actually a rather popular thing to do over here. So that could easily have been fitted to a European Caravelle Carat, either here i Europe or when imported to Canada.

However, the Caravelle Carat was never officially available in any red color at all and this particular one looks even darker than the Tizian Red color that other Caravelle models were available with so that is a puzzle also. Some special order Oettinger Carats were delivered with Tizian Red so no rule without exeptions. I believe the American market Vanagon Carat had a darker red quite similar to this. But when looking at this pic the red actually looks lighter in the air ducts:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Engine installation looks very clean, and apart from a couple of details it looks very much like an SA engine bay. (Coil in the wrong place, wrong engine cover, some hoses appears not to be the correct SA-parts)

In the end I agree with you. Looks like a Canadian special order that has had an engine conversion done later and with some (but not all) the correct SA-parts.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:16 am    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

OddN wrote:
D Clymer wrote:
That one is a puzzler. It's a Caravelle Carat - a top of the line "Business" model they never sold in NA. But the body appears to be of NA spec with rear marker lights. So it may very well be that VW of Canada did order it. The part that makes no sense is the 5 cylinder conversion. It's all VW of South Africa components, but VW didn't start putting the 5 cylinder in their Vanagons until 1992 and this is a 1989. My guess is that it was originally a Wasserboxer and someone did an Overland 5 cylinder conversion on it later. The raised lid looks factory, though.


I agree. this is a tricky one.

The 2,6 actually wasn't available in SA until 1995 and differs from the 2,5 in having electronic injection (the 2,5 had the old Bosch K-jetronic) and this is definitely the 2,6 injection.

Rear marker light is an easy thing to retrofit, and actually a rather popular thing to do over here. So that could easily have been fitted to a European Caravelle Carat, either here i Europe or when imported to Canada.

However, the Caravelle Carat was never officially available in any red color at all and this particular one looks even darker than the Tizian Red color that other Caravelle models were available with so that is a puzzle also. Some special order Oettinger Carats were delivered with Tizian Red so no rule without exeptions. I believe the American market Vanagon Carat had a darker red quite similar to this. But when looking at this pic the red actually looks lighter in the air ducts:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Engine installation looks very clean, and apart from a couple of details it looks very much like an SA engine bay. (Coil in the wrong place, wrong engine cover, some hoses appears not to be the correct SA-parts)

In the end I agree with you. Looks like a Canadian special order that has had an engine conversion done later and with some (but not all) the correct SA-parts.

in 1995 SA vans were big window.
This has a lot of SA parts on the outside too but those things are available to buy.
The paint color looks factory as the barcode sticker is present on the passenger B pillar
Maybe the ad is correct, and it was specially imported to Canada and later had an SA engine change
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

Front body section has washers in wrong location for the year listed. She's had work done.
I'd look the body over very closely myself. In any case, jump on that thing Neil.

Mark
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
Front body section has washers in wrong location for the year listed. She's had work done.
I'd look the body over very closely myself. In any case, jump on that thing Neil.

Mark


Yeah, you're right. How could I miss that. That washer nozzle location indicates a pre 86 front clip.

The mystery is getting bigger...
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

There are a lot of pictures in the sellers Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/2029280183971881/photos/?tab=album&album_id=2146475182252380

They show some pretty bad body repairs and respray.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

OddN wrote:
crazyvwvanman wrote:
Front body section has washers in wrong location for the year listed. She's had work done.
I'd look the body over very closely myself. In any case, jump on that thing Neil.

Mark


Yeah, you're right. How could I miss that. That washer nozzle location indicates a pre 86 front clip.

The mystery is getting bigger...


I missed that too

and the wiper arms are both from 2.1 driver side
the lower grill is strange too the SA grills center part was cut out
the front vertical seam looks missing on the passenger side
but 87+ rear hatch and vented rear windows
missing type plate (VIN plate) from A pillar passenger side
missing carat horn push
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

This one looks to be more like the real thing, 2.1 carat with the Executive (?) interior:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2181326
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:16 am    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

It has all the A/C components on the interior but I don’t see a compressor or envision how it would fit. Maybe I’m just missing it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

joetiger wrote:
This one looks to be more like the real thing, 2.1 carat with the Executive (?) interior:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2181326


Yes that is also a Caravelle Carat. A little newer than the other one i think since it has grey vinyl on the seats and grey carpet.

One thing however, the "Wolfsburg" name was never used on these originaly.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

This thing is just down the street from me...I can go take a look if someone's interested.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

We're all very interested...
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
Front body section has washers in wrong location for the year listed. She's had work done.
I'd look the body over very closely myself. In any case, jump on that thing Neil.

Mark


I'm tempted Mark but I need another prOject like a hole in the head! LOL. (although my swap is nearly ready for a road test)

And for sure; the body looks like its had work done. Paint at minimum.

As mentioned, title shows it has a "rebuilt" status.

Neat to see the comments here folks. Lots of details.

Neil.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: 1989 2.6 Litre Caravelle Vanagon. Rare? Reply with quote

What's with the Eurovan wheel covers? Carats should have alloys!

OddN wrote:
However, the Caravelle Carat was never officially available in any red color at all and this particular one looks even darker than the Tizian Red color that other Caravelle models were available with so that is a puzzle also.


The 1989 Carat was available in North America in Bordeaux Red Pearl. Thus, Canada probably ordered a handful of North American-style Carats, but with the Caravelle Carat interior. VW most likely left the Caravelle nameplate on it to differentiate between the NA Carat and Euro Caravelle Carat.

Bordeaux Red Carat:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Titian Red Metallic camper:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


FWIW, another real (European) one:

Link

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