The Not-So-"1967 Only" Generator

[hazetguy]

The myth of the 1967 "only" generator.

People often see a generator with the rectangular terminal connector block and push on terminals and presume it is a 1967 "only" thing. Well, it is not. For whatever reason, Bosch made both 6 volt and 12 volt generators with this style terminal block.


EDIT: a 507 (July 1965) generator has been seen in the classifieds. See this post:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8847990#8847990

The earliest I've seen is a GR-14X, 7V 45amp with a 509 (September 1965) date code, VW part number 131 903 021, Bosch part number 0 101 302 061. Production of the 6V type went into 12v-era cars, as I've noted 6V generators with date codes as late as 11/1966.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, the latest I've seen is a 12 volt with a 802 (February 1968) date code, which is well into 1968 model year, VW part number 211 903 031 or 031A, Bosch part number 0 101 302 067 or 075.

As far as I know, these are all late style 105mm diameter generators, standard length, not requiring different backing plates, hubs, or special pulleys.

There is also evidence that this style was used on Type 3's as well, although I've only seen a few of them.

Please post any other date codes or types of this generator. Do you have one that is earlier or later than the dates posted here? Let's see 'em!

Thanks to the people who granted me permission to use their pictures for this thread: Greg Banfill (mr. warehouse), Mark (thebugsmy59), Manfred (manfred58sc), Dave (fuscavw)

Bosch Date Codes:

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[hazetguy]

Another early~ish 6V:

Date Code 601 (January 1966), mounted on incorrect GR17 backing plates:

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[viiking]

Here's a poor photo of my generator marked 802. It is however a genuine Bosch generator made in Australia for my Dad's owned since new 1968 1500 Beetle. It has the push in terminals and plastic connector as described by the original poster.

Both the generator and starter motor were "Made in Australia" genuine Bosch parts.

[Ghettoman]

Thanks for doing your homework, this could be your doctoral dissertation. I think that, as with most of the auto industry, many of these types of items are used and phased into the public as the industry sees fit to do so. Many different companies, including Bosch, manufacture items at different times and places and utilize them as they see the need. The change in design of a generator is probably based on both experimenting with the design and also the outcome and feedback given from performance and/or need of the unit. Obviously the push in plug did not make it permanently as somebody in Bosch decided it was not in the benefit of either the public or the repair man to utilize this type of design in future generators. Maybe it cost them too much to do this design and we are stuck with the clip type. Kinda like evolution weeds out what does not work in the long run. We have to take the idea that this is only for 67 with a grain of salt in that it obviously was used over several years and in several different applications. However, the number of generators that Bosch produced during the 1967 year was predominately this type as compared to other years. Unfortunately it was deemed not to be produced later on by Bosch for some evolutionary reason.

[Ghettoman]

Just a few that I have that are push type connector generator. Will post more when I dig them out of storage.

[Ghettoman]

Found the following dates from generators I have in storage:

6-volt ones: 6/11, 6/6, 6/10.

12-volt ones: 6/10, 7/11, 7/7, 7/9, 8/11, 9/8.

All have the typical 67 push on connector.

[FunkyOldPatina]

Thanks guys, always assumed that if they were push on they were 6v only.

[hazetguy]

A few more tidbits from various owner's manuals

August 1966 6V https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/manualsbug67.php

December 1967 (1968 model year)

And by August 1968 the style changed back to two post terminals

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thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money

[consvws]

after reading this thread i dug through my pile of cores & found eleven of these "not-so 67 only style" generators. 2 are 6v. the rest are all 12v. The orange painted one is for a T3

The latest one i could find was stamped 803 (12v)

The earliest was stamped 608 (6v)

[creideahm]

I have nothing to add but I love threads like this!!!! You never stop discovering new things with these cars. Keep them coming
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[Ghettoman]

Found one with the date of 910. That makes it about 3 years of manufacturing this type of connector that was only supposed to be on the 67's.

[wcfvw69]

I've seen some VW factory manuals that show the plug in style generators in Ghia's and buses as well. Most people believe this generator was in 67 bugs only. The pictures I've seen included ancillary items on the engine that showed it was in a bus or Ghia.

Here's a picture out of a 68' bay bus owners manual. Now, we all know VW reused many pictures from different years or models in owners manuals as well.
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[hazetguy]

Edit to the first post:
This generator appeared in the classifieds. It has a 507 date code, July 965. It predates the one in the original post by several months.

The seller said this in an email, regarding the date code:
I thought this was a spare generator but in fact this is the stock generator from my '66 13 window deluxe (I updated my ad). My bus is stamped August '65.

Pics courtesy of Eli / edgruberman.

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thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money

[hazetguy]

Saw this Type 3 generator at a swap meet.
608 date code, August 1966.
0 101 302 069
14V 30A
VW part number 311 901 031E

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thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money

[hazetguy]

Saw this generator at a swap meet. Sorry that the stampings are difficult to read.
606 date code, June 1966.
14V 30A
0 101 302 067
VW part number 211 903 031

This shows that Bosch was already making 12V generators in this style prior to and/or in preparation for 12V systems being stock in VW vehicles.

_________________
thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money

[FarmerBill]

After a discussion in the Performance forum about how the "67 only" generator was produced for a much longer period I pulled my spare generators off the shelf and started looking for info here on the Samba. I have 2 early 6 volt versions with the square terminal block. One from November 1965 (511) and the other from June 1965 (506). I bought them from someone on the Samba about a year ago, I don't know much about their history except they have been sitting for decades in storage. They are both 105mm.

November 1965

November 1965

And June 1965

June 1965

But here's the interesting bit for the VW nerds (myself included), the terminal block on the June 65 is a white or cream color instead of black or brown. Was this an early block or a late replacement part put on during a rebuild? Or were the colors just random with the dark colors being the dominant choice? Who knows?

[glutamodo]

Some comments on stamped production date codes:

Bosch may have started production on an upcoming part change well in advance just to have stock on had to satisfy demand once the change was implemented. Conversely,they may have kept that line of production going once it had been supplanted on another line, just to satisfy orders from the parts department... or they just used up the parts on hand before shutting it down.

And commenting on Owner's Manual images. They can be of pre-production mockups, or they can be re-used images from the past. So you can only rely on them for general accuracy as to when the picture was taken.
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[FarmerBill]

My guess on these generators is that Bosch began production of the 105mm 6 volt with the push on terminal block in mid 1965 for the 1966 model year busses. If you look at the August 1965 (1966 model year) bus owners manual you can see the terminal block. Interestingly you can also read the serial number on the engine which makes it an April of 1965 1500 engine. The preheat in the picture is also in the 66 only location, making me think this photo was created to depict the engine that they were going to produce in August 1965.

So, I think these 105mm square terminal block generators were almost exclusively on busses (and maybe ghias?) in 66, used on bugs, busses, ghias and T3s in 67, and used into 1968 until supplies ran out and the old style terminals returned.

[bnam]

The engines for Bugs, Typ 1verts and Ghias were all produced at the same location I believe - with engines destined for Ghias, Verts, or for US standards being marked on the shroud with stencils (15, 14, mXXX, etc) indicating which model they should go to. I'm not sure if Buses were also in the same line.

But, if these were in the same line, then it would seem more likely that parts were used for all products in the line vs only for some items in the line.
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[FarmerBill]