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Automatic on a 78 CEII
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sneakyjack
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

Switching to a an Automatic 1978 Champagne 2 westy. I had a 74 standard.

Asking about what t look for in the automatic as far as transmission problems and any decent mods for the tranny (if needed - auto clutch?) I've never dealt with one.

Also its a FI 1970cc original engine. Better to loose the Fi and go to carb or?

It has a recent sender since there is a cut out in back above the gas tank.

The bus is pretty complete with CEII pieces like tables curtains and assorted other items. Gotta figure out the fridge and how to get it running too.

It runs and stops and needs the usual rust fixes, both dog legs and back battery plate(s) both sides.
Decent shape well cared for..

Thanks in advance for ANY help Mechanics or more on this vehicle.
Its White top - Brown Bottom Chrome Bumpers (well one the rear is missing) Spare on the nose.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

my reservation with the automatic is they are kind of getting hard to find some internal parts for. no real "beef up" parts available but you can mix and match some parts from Vanagon/audi/rabbit/golf etc

good cores are really getting hard to find as well.
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sneakyjack
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

The core thing is a concern.

I noticed on the rebuild of the engine of my last bus. But rare becomes rear becomes where to find at what cost.

PLease keep input coming
Mahalo in advance.
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Cap10323
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

Obviously my sample size is small, but everyone I know with an Automatic transmission Bus has had a lot of problems.

I'd start with a fluid flush, and just be easy on it. As skills said, parts are getting hard to find.

There's a thread somewhere detailing the process of a manual conversion, you could check that out if you run out of other options.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

I have rebuilt the early model 003 series, and although I broke an internal part due to ignorance, I made correct repairs and that 1973 bus is a daily driver.

My 1978 bus has the later 010 series and I donít know how well that will perform because the engine needs serious work... Iíve not driven it more than around the driveway.

My 1987 Westfalia also has the 010, but with the later improvement of external fluid cooler; that was cooled by the engine water coolant system, but I eliminated that and installed a thermostatically controlled fan/cooler. Cooling the ATF is a great idea in my book. I live in a tropical location and rarely see freezing weather.

Driving a VW bus with an automatic transmission is truly a novelty!

These transmissions all have the Audi symbol next to the VW symbol if that is any indication as to product line application.

As Skills mentioned, some parts are getting scarce. I got some giggles from the parts guys when I was searching for the oil pump on my 003, but they actually had one for the 010 and I stole the Ďflowerí pump shaft socket piece for my 003 oil pump.

You can still get torque converters easily enough, and the master overhaul kits are out there.

What is really getting tough to find are the so-called Ďhard partsí like pistons, springs and slide valves. Those are best found in good cores... if you can find them.

BUT THINK ABOUT THIS... most every person on here has decided to screw around with grossly outdated automotive technology long discarded by the original manufacturers. So thatís the bed we made!

The same goes for the fuel injected Type 4 engine. Suckers run like raped apes when they are set up EXACTLY the way they were designed... but enjoy the chase finding quality machine shop support, good main and cam bearings and the elusive oil pump replacement. Not to mention the correct thermostat, quality P&C sets... the list goes on.

In spite of all this, I think most would agree that if you take your time and invest quality parts and genuine effort into your bus bringing it to at least the factory standards, youíll have a high value bus that you can be proud of.
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kerian159
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

When properly running not much can beat an Auto for driving. If the FI is intact i'd keep it (just check all of the hoses gas and vacuum) As for parts there is a place in Miramar Beach, FL that seams to have most of the parts http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/VW-010.html
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WhirledTraveller
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:22 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

Automatic is a good drive, costs a few mpg. It's a common transmission for the day, has a good reputation for reliability, but they are old. As stated master rebuild kits are available and not expensive, but the "hard parts" might require scrounging from a core. Same can be said for most parts on a Bus these days. Unlike a manual transmission, a garage mechanic can generally rebuild the automatic his or herself.

Mods... you can switch to a higher stall speed Vanagon spec torque converter which nets you a bit more sprightly performance.

It's also possible to modify for an external cooler but it's not an easy project and probably not necessary unless you subject the bus to extreme use, like towing.

It's also possible two swap in some of the parts from an Audi 5000 turbo transmission, if you have such a core, which gets you a stronger planetary gear set. Not really necessary unless you are running a highly modified engine, as far as I know the standard planetary gears generally last just fine in a bus.

The biggest problem area would be if the seal between the transmission and differential fails, you will get mixing of ATF and gear oil which is very bad for both. Some people recommend replacing that seal (and doubling up the seal) as a precaution.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

WhirledTraveller wrote:

The biggest problem area would be if the seal between the transmission and differential fails, you will get mixing of ATF and gear oil which is very bad for both. Some people recommend replacing that seal (and doubling up the seal) as a precaution.


I wouldn't put a box in with seals of unknown age in it. There are actually three seals that separate the ATF and the gear oil. You have the obvious seal that you see when you separate the units and then there is the governor shaft seal and an inner pinion shaft seal. The governor shaft seal must be installed in the right direction and at the right depth, while the inner pinion seal requires a fairly complete disassemble of the final drive, not technically that hard, but care is require to get the bearing preload and gear lash back where it was. You must punch mark the adjusting nuts for the differential side gears and make sure they go back on the same side they were removed from and tightened to the exact point.

The Vanagon boxes of the same design do use two seals back to back in the one location.
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sneakyjack
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

Thanks for everything thus far. I'm driving mostly in New England so some warm summer days but not constant heat. like the south and Florida.

Not towing anything but there are hills (some would call Mountains)

While I'm not planning a tour of the US in it I'd like to go more than my Premiere AAA 200 mile towing plan with out too much concern, but as we all know with these rides you never really know.

How do I figure out the 001 or 003 style of tranny?

thanks and thanks everyone who replied I've been searching on the auto trans threads too!!
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

Nothing wrong with the auto trans or the FI. CEIIs only came in 1978
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

sneakyjack wrote:
...While I'm not planning a tour of the US in it I'd like to go more than my Premiere AAA 200 mile towing plan with out too much concern, but as we all know with these rides you never really know.


FWIW, we have put more than 33,000 miles on our 1987 Westy (late model 010 series) without much trouble since we bought it a few years ago: shift tower back up light switch is out of adjustment and I had some slipping this spring after heavy stop and go traffic on a warm day. After I changed the fluid, I had zero problems. But my shop-rebuilt transmission probably has close to 80,000 miles on it.

sneakyjack wrote:
How do I figure out the 001 or 003 style of tranny?


Several ways: early models had the 003 from 1973 up until 1975 or 1976 (I think), the top of the transmission case has the part number cast in it with the VW and Audi logo. The digit sequence will have 010 or 003. Also, hit the Bentley and study the chapter on this. You can also hit the Samba photo gallery for pictures. Or Google. The oil pan shape and the governors also look different, if my memory serves me correctly. The later (1985?) Vanagon 010 models have a port coming off the front of the case for oil cooling.

There are likely other visual clues, hopefully others will chime in.

Here is a long thread on my experience of my rebuild... there are a few links in
It that lead to more info on the subject; pay attention to how I botched my second reinstall after I changed my engine.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570127

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570692

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
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Last edited by Wasted youth on Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:09 pm; edited 5 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

003 has a Vacuum Can, 010 is fully Hydraulic, and 003 ended in '75 (IIRC)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

kerian159 wrote:
003 has a Vacuum Can, 010 is fully Hydraulic, and 003 ended in '75 (IIRC)


Excellent point! Yes, the 003 is vacuum modulated and the 010 is accelerator modulated. Big difference. Also, Iím pretty sure the shifter mechanism linkage at the transmission is completely different between the two models.

Also... I am calling these the 010 and the 003, but other people will call them as 091, I think. Check out the Bentleys... both Vanagon and Baywindow.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

Also the Bay Window Bentley doesn't really cover the 010 (093) you have to get the Vanagon version
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

Not near the bus NOW at time of writing but its a 78 so I'd guess its a 010.

I did the mcode plate on it and it came with a heater which is gone and the dealer must of added the AC in there now.

Born April 1977 - so its a 1978 has brown "stuff" in it like dash board and special head rest in the Champagne edition.

Pics soon.

thanks again especially for the extra links to threads!
Much appreciated.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

planing on seals and refreash of tranny fluid / oil / lubricant
Any good choices on obtaining seals (kits0 and type of fluid to use?

010 - Hydraulic
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:14 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

sneakyjack wrote:
planing on seals and refreash of tranny fluid / oil / lubricant
Any good choices on obtaining seals (kits0 and type of fluid to use?

010 - Hydraulic


http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/VW-010.html

Dexron fluid is specified. Like oil, brand loyalty often trumps logic in online discussions. Most anything that says Dexron on the label will work fine, I use Castrol Dex/Merc in the gallon jugs.

Just so you are fully aware, changing the seal between the differential and the transmission requires dropping the whole unit. Itís possible to drop the transmission/differential separate from the engine, but many people think dropping the whole shebang engine included is almost as easy. Easier to mate the two together on the ground, for sure. So you might find yourself opening a can of worms. ďIíve come this far, might as well do x, y, and z while Iím hereĒ
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

Thanks on the above-
Castrol Dex/Merc in the gallon jugs.


I get the mating back having it all flat

what would

xyz be?
Once down?


As always thanks in advance
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

sneakyjack wrote:


xyz be?
Once down?


As always thanks in advance


Typically once you have the engine down you might, say, change all the fuel lines (very important regular maintenance every 8 years or so, yours might be original, these things catch fire regularly). Might want to remove all the tin clean and paint/powdercoat. If you suspect you might need some engine work, take the heads off, look at the valves and cam, that would be the time to do it. So easy to access the gas tank now, maybe should go in and change the fuel vent hoses that might be causing that gas smell. How's the heat system? Easy time to fix that up while you have good access. Maybe clean up the whole engine compartment and paint that. You can see how it goes. I'm sure you'll find stuff that need addressing.

Seriously, fuel lines.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic on a 78 CEII Reply with quote

Yes agreed on all
Fuel
Boxes
tank

All will happen

Was askin more about the auto tranny.

Search sneakyjack I've been around. (bali 74) Just that the auto Trans is new to me!

I appreciate all the responses in the this thread. Feel free to add.

Pics will come "soon"
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