'77 won't turn over

[el-roso]

Hello everybody,

My first post and it's a request for help, wish I'd introduced myself earlier.

I am a recent owner of a '77 bus with an auto tranny and the first 3/4 months have been problem free until now.

Over the last week I've been having intermittent issues getting the starter to turn over that have gotten worse to the point that I now can't start it at all.

I turn the ignition on and the instruments light up, but when I try to start it nothing happens. I'm not hearing any clicking and the starter is not turning or even trying to turn. The headlights work and don't dim when I turn the key. I tested the battery and am getting 12.5V from the terminals.

Every now and then it will start, but I have the keep the key turned to the starter position for 4-5 sec's before the starter motor will begin to turn. Once the starter kicks in the engine runs just fine.

My untrained instinct tells me that as the auto needs to be in Park to start, perhaps the switch that detects that the trans in is P could be faulty or perhaps that the ignition switch itself is not detecting that the key is turned but I'm just guessing.

If it's the starter or solenoid, is it likely that it would work intermittently like this?

First bus, first problem, first post! Where are the obvious places to look?

[Wildthings]

First off the headlights should go off completely when you turn the key to the start position. Second checking the voltage at the battery doesn't tell you much about the voltage at the starter when the key is turned. Have you tried jumping the starter solenoid? If not read up on doing so, don't run yourself over!!! Have you cleaned all your high amperage connections including your grounds?

[XXX/Rx/RnR]

Solenoid has to have 12 volts or better to energized. Hard start relay will bypass the wire going to the key and back and give full battery voltage at the solenoid. $12 from bus depot. After many years of service and cycles the wire going to the key and back will have a voltage drop.
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78' westy, 2.4 195hp ecotec, audi turbo a/t, a\c, 2 1/2" lift spindles, index rear, 930 cv's & axles, 225x65x17 BFGs ## 77' hardtop 2.0 T-4 duel 44 weber's, 225x50x17s ## 74' baha bug

[TomWesty]

[Abscate]

That is a classic 'bad pigtail from solenoid to motor' symptom.
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.ssS!

[el-roso]

[SGKent]

If the battery is more than 5 years old just replace it with a new one. If the headlights are dim when the key is on then it may need a charge. Don't leave the key on long because it can burn the points, coil or electronic ignition. Below is a photo of tests for a starter and solenoid once you know the battery is strong. In neutral, key off and wheels chocked so you don't get run over. If you charge the battery remove one lead so the alternator and ECU are fairly isolated from errors.

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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[ToolBox]

After cleaning all the cables and starter connections try putting it in neutral and starting. The Neutral safety/back up light switch is under the shifter cover.

[Wasted youth]

Not to ignore all the great advice given so far, I will share with you that I had similar symptoms on my 1977 bus. All of the tasks outlined above had previously been accomplished.

Root cause: cracked ignition switch in the steering column. The ignition key lock turns a small indexed tab into the switch which actually does the electrical work needed to allow current to pass from the battery to the starter solenoid. When (not “IF” but WHEN) that switch housing cracks, the effort of that tab is relegated to sloppy ineffectiveness.

Solution is to remove the switch and replace with new, not really a simple task for the unitiated. Here:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8215835#8215835

[el-roso]

Thank you all for the help and advice.

After trying the ideas above, I gave up and called roadside assistance and they managed to get it started. The guy got underneath and tapped the starter with a wrench as I turned the key and it fired right up.

I'm not sure what this means, whether it's bad starter / solenoid / both but I have a good lead now. Will update when I get more news.

[Wasted youth]

It would mean to me... that it’s time to pull the starter and clean and lube the solenoid and blow out all dust from the motor side. Replace corroded nuts and washers and splice in new crimp connectors on the wiring to the solenoid and starter.

[Abscate]

If you have a good auto electric shop in town , once the starter is out, pass Go and take it to them for a clean and rebuild.
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.ssS!

[SGKent]

[Tcash]

The starter motor brushes are loosing contact. Sometimes you can clean them or time for a rebuild.
Good luck
Tcash


Starter id = Which clutch cover/bell housing you have T2

[SGKent]

[Tcash]

Could be.
Tcash