| Author |
Message |
vamram 
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7304
Location: NOVA
|
 Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:13 am Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
 |
|
Thanks, I'll turn down the wire speed. Is what looks like a green blob thru the mask the red glow you're referring to?
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Frank Bassman
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2012
Posts: 894
Location: Miami
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:37 am Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
When cutting a patch panel, try to make the contours as true as possible. Any gaps will promote burning through or poor fusion. Both panels must heat up evenly and mely evenly... Almost impossible to do with panels of different thicknesses and even same thicknesses of different metal quality. Hence, why same thicknesses are best.
Good job Victor!
-Frank |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vamram
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7304
Location: NOVA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
Yeah, i'll have to do a lot of cleanup on the big section I cut out on the passenger side moon vent area before creating a template for the replacement piece. After cleaning it up, I was going to tape a piece of cardboard to the area, and use it to cut out a template. Then use that template to mark the area to cut from the donor panel.
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VW_Jimbo
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9966
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
| vamram wrote: |
| Yeah, i'll have to do a lot of cleanup on the big section I cut out on the passenger side moon vent area before creating a template for the replacement piece. After cleaning it up, I was going to tape a piece of cardboard to the area, and use it to cut out a template. Then use that template to mark the area to cut from the donor panel. |
I use heavy card stock, because it cuts with good scissors and bends, mimicking the body shape.
On a Bug, since most surfaces, from the outside, are convex, I start my panel welds at the apex of the arch, so top middle of the patch. That way you can push and pull the patch panel into the shape needed. So, when I am sticking a patch in. I place the panel in with a as many panel clamps as required to get it to obtain the correct shape and size of the hole. Then I tack the highest point. An inch down from that, immediately hit another tack. Then blow that whole thing down to room temp. Then back to two or three tacks at a time, dont push the pace, it costs way more time if you do. Then again with the compressed air. Repeat until panel is set and shaped correctly. Remove the clamps and start filling, a few tacks at a time, then cool it all down and repeat. Grind it all down immediately, way easier right then because everything is still warm. Cool it all down and hit it with a primer. Be sure to use a weldable primer on the back side of the panel!
Biggest thing to keep in check is panel temperature. If it gets too high, the panel will deform by sinking and then you will have to start over or bindi the hell out of it!
Also, no more than tack welds on panels like these. Long welding beads will ruin the panel in a few seconds.
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
Last edited by VW_Jimbo on Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
One thing that would have made some of my rust repair jobs easier is a panel flanger.
https://www.eastwood.com/ew-panel-flanger.html
I don't know if this will work for you, but it would effectively double the thickness of the joint to be welded. Even if you flanged a few "tabs" here and there it would help.
Also, when mig welding, you can't have any rust. It will just blow out and not stick.
When welding butt joints on thin metal, you are just going to be "tacking" in places. Start by tacking a couple of inches apart. You have to let it cool between tacks or it will warp the panel. Once everything is tacked in place, a few inches apart, add one tack overlapping each of the original tacks and let them cool. When you are finished, you'll have all your tacks overlapped and connected.
_________________
My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vamram
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7304
Location: NOVA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
Too late to order it now, my brother gets here tonight so that we can get the bulk of the repairs done this weekend. Wonder if HF sells it...?
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24759
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
Better to butt weld anyway. Having lapping over metal will just catch moisture between in the laps between the metal pieces.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vamram
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7304
Location: NOVA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
Is the butt weld the same thing as a tach weld?
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24759
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
| vamram wrote: |
| Is the butt weld the same thing as a tach weld? |
A "Tack" weld is a small spot of weld to hold initially or temporarily two or more pieces of metal together. That can be used on butt, or lap welds or etc...
"butt" weld is where you weld two pieces of metal edge to edge.
A "Tach" short for tachometer is a gauge to tell one shaft RPM.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VW_Jimbo
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9966
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
As stated above. No lap welds, because they will rust out quickly.
Butt joints only. Buy some panel clamps at harbor freight. Or just hold it in place and tack it.
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ricaroo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2016
Posts: 662
Location: 603
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
To Butt weld small pieces together try using a magnet to hold the Patch piece in place...
Rick
_________________
1971 Standard Beetle 2 dr Sedan 1600dp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Thanks, I'll turn down the wire speed. Is what looks like a green blob thru the mask the red glow you're referring to? |
You don't have the welder adjusted well enough. In fact it's way off.
1 -If you don't have variable control for voltage ,put it at the lowest setting.
2 -Turn the wire speed down as low at it will go as well.
3 -While keeping the contact tip about 1/4-3/8:" from the metal ,strike an arc.
4-Does it stub into the metal or does it have a big ball on the end of the wire while arcing?
5- If it stubs in , the speed is too fast and if there is a big ball on the end of the wire and it melts off in globs ,it's too slow.
6- If you can't get a good arc ( The pool should spread out to maximum width in about under 2 seconds and then burn through if held in the same place) turn up the voltage and go back to step 3.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vamram
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7304
Location: NOVA
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
Well, the welding with my brother was a complete disaster. First, I don't have a garage, I have the car under one of those HF framed 10x20 tarps and yesterday it rained torrentially from about 8 a.m. until midnight. I had to go out and buy tarps to attach as walls around our work area, but the rain still splashed in so much my shoes were soaked and my feet like prunes, and everything was misty wet from humidity.
If you're reading this in hopes of learning something, learn this: BUY THE EASTWOOD 135 INSTEAD. We had all kinds of problems w/the Lincoln welder. Burn thru, cold spots, blobs, you name it. Problems finding a good ground to be able to attach to; difficult to nail down the right voltage. Just for testing, this morning we switched the polarity of the welder to negative polarity welding and were able to get puddles w/out burning thru. This is the setting that the manual says to use for flux core, but it worked for the MIG wire. Go figure. There also aren't enough settings to be able to really control the voltage the way you need to.
The results were so poor that I'm not even going to post pictures. We patched the floor, which I will have to seal up further and deal w/pin holes. We patched up the inner panel of the C-pillar. Let's just say that stories of the PO will be told whenever this car is again stripped down in some future life.
We didn't even touch the exterior panels because we don't feel confident that this welder won't blow thru them or leave huge globs of cold spot welds.
Of course, today it's partly sunny w/some small showers, and he's on his way back to bOrlando. Me, I'm just going to buy more pieces of 22g steel from HD and practice w/cuts the shape I need for the outside, and weld those to the pieces I cut them from. UNTIL I GET IT RIGHT.
Quick observation - the original VW metal is very soft compared to the steel sheets from HD. Even though it looks to be a thicker gauge, it's very soft and easy to bend.
Also, i had to cut the harness because I realized that I will destroy it if I try to weld the driver-side fender bolt areas w/it still in the wheel well. I cut by the driver side seat rail so as to not have to undo and later mess up all of the engine compartment connections. Easier to fix the straight wires inside where I have some slack to work w/.
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AlmostHeavenWV_VW
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2017
Posts: 1966
Location: WV
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
| vamram wrote: |
Well, the welding with my brother was a complete disaster.
[....] |
Failure is often the best teacher, a rough around the edges lesson, but still good learning.
Your work may be rough or ugly, but it'll improve as you learn too.
Keep at it, Vam. You're doing great, I'm sure of it. Any new skill takes time- welding is no exception. Your skills and equipment selection will improve with time and experience.
Just keep flipping the welding mask down and keep on tacking those welds 
_________________
1973 Standard Beetle
1600DP AK case
Solex 34PICT3 Carb
Bosch DVDA 205AJ Distributor |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
calvinater
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2014
Posts: 3330
Location: 802 The Pointless Forrest
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
Bummer man. Wishing you better results in the future. if at first you dont succeed .... . Ben Franklin
_________________
"Albatross"! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VW_Jimbo
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9966
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
Sounds like everyones first time. Short lived, wet and no one was really satisfied!
But, your feet are wet! I have a cheapy 175 amp MIG welder from Harbor Frieght. Welds great, with gas! Flux core sucks! When I was a mechanic, the shop had a large rolling Snap On welder. That thing was awesome. Not sure of its output.
You really need a good teacher. You should look into a class offered at your local JC. Well worth the money, to gain that amount of knowledge within several classes.
The pin holes can be filled in with brazing or solder, if you were maybe planning on just ignoring them.
Hope you get it sorted out and end up enjoying welding.
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24759
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
Maybe you got a lemon of a Lincoln. You should see about getting it repaired under warrante or return it.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
| Quote: |
| We had all kinds of problems w/the Lincoln welder. Burn thru, cold spots, blobs, you name it. |
Welders without variable voltage control are not linear. According to Hobart, they have smaller increments at the lower settings than there is a big gap to the highest setting. When you switch polarity,one of the things you do is select if the contact tip gets hot or the metal gets hotter. Having the contact get hotter keeps the weld pool cooler.
If you have the welder 'dialed in' if you slightly move the pool to a area that will absorb more heat it won't have as much power and if you move to a area that is thinner the weld pool will get hotter and possibly burn through.
Let's say you have the welder dialed in. As you are moving the pool and laying a bead you should have about 1/4" to 3/4" trail of red hot bead where you have welded. If you slow down the trail will get longer and if you speed up it gets shorter. If it gets too long you will burn through.
Although not extravagant ,the handy mig is probably designed to do auto work okay.It does not have a circuit board for the voltage so you can rule that out.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.
Last edited by theKbStockpiler on Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12856
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
Don't blame the equipment, you just haven't learned it's idiosyncrasies yet or might not have it set up correctly. Windy/shitty conditions are not ideal for a gas MIG, this is where you would have less issues with a flux core.
The flux core splatters more & doesn't leave as clean of a final look but if you become proficient with it, it works well in worse conditions. The main fault is not being able to use the thinner wire.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vamram
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7304
Location: NOVA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Welding in No. VA? |
|
|
Thanks all for your input.
Wind wasn't an issue really, just terrible humidity thanks to the drenching rain. I have a two-hour MIG class this Wednesday night. We'll see how that goes.
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
