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69 road race Ghia rebuild
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slayer61
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

Keep it up Ian. I'm watching for inspiration. Cool
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kingkarmann
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

Heady stuff! Cool
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DORIGTT
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

Ian,

Are you reporting travel based on the engine and body being on the pan?
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Ian Godfrey
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

Dorigtt, the travel measurements are at the wheel, with the car fully assembled.
So at the back 50mm to the bump stop and 80 to the metal is 60mm and 90 at the wheel. In the previous version of the car I had 28mm torsions and 27mm sway bar, to keep it very flat.
This time I'm going 26mm torsion and 22 sway to compliment the Mendeola front end which is more compliant and has rising camber so it is OK to let the body roll a bit more.
The rake is a bit less than 1 degree, so 30mm lower in the front
This all leads to using slightly shorter, softer bump stops that will engage more often as part of the suspension system rather than just being a bump stop.
Sorry for the long rave but I still get excited about what is possible with our old (light and simple) cars Very Happy
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DORIGTT
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:41 am    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

Ian,
Could you clarify what you mean by "80 to the metal"?

Please don't stop with the details! I'm building a car that'll be 75% street driven and 25% track use (not for competition, but for the safe driving enjoyment at the limit.)
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Ian Godfrey
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:54 am    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

Dorigtt, I'm happy to answer questions. 'To the metal': if there was no rubber bump stop the trailing arm would hit the metal stop above, ie 50mm travel and 30mm high bump stop = 80mm.... and then a nasty metallic crunching sound Embarassed

At the front there is 50mm of droop (below normal) and then 100mm of travel until the pan hit the ground, so I'll get some bump stops for the shocks to stop that.
I hope this all makes sense
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

Whoo! What a sweet build..!

Rear suspension gives me flashbacks to building my Fastback.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=581759


One thing (OK many things) done wrong on my build includes not checking alignment on the rear suspension while it was being built.
Lost toe-in when the suspension was at final ride height.
Coming clear back apart to trim more off of spring plates was no fun.
So be 100% sure you have plenty of adjustment in the rear - i never would have guessed this until it was too late.


You'll be really glad you went with a Berg5 vs. a Porsche gearbox.
While they are missing shifts and hunting for gears with a 901 or 915, you'll be long gone. Cool

You SURE you don't want a type 4?
They're for circuit racing you know.. Wink


Oh, and strip all of those paint/bodywork products off ASAP,
Including the POR15.
That stuff is HEAVY!! Razz


You'll run carpet and door panels, right?
With holes cut?
Doesn't weigh that much.. Very Happy
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Ian Godfrey
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:38 am    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

Clatter, thank you for you comments, I had read fair chunks of your thread as it comes up in google searches for suspension Smile
you are absolutely right about the toe in. My first mock up at ride height seemed OK after I moved the inner pivot in and back as far as I could go

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but when I set the camber to 2 deg neg I had 0 deg toe in Exclamation so yep, off with the spring plates and a bit of grinding to get enough adjustability of toe in, and that leads to a bit more cut off the bump stops and a bit more off the front spring plate bolt, well you know how it goes Crying or Very sad

i don't have experience with a 901 but a few peeps have said they don's shift as well as the later boxs with Borg Warner syncros (like a VW)

i like the light weight of the Type 1 engine and I think it is just all I know, though I did think about an oxy boxer for a while. Now i'm thinking a TF 1 case might give me the best of both worlds. Though there would be some negotiation at home for one of those to appear under the Xmas tree. Confused

I've taken out all the sound deadening, but I've kept door panels and just the floor carpets that I can remove to race. the radio and heater has gone but I'm keeping the bud vase for giggles!
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DORIGTT
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

Where'd you get those adjustable inner bushings?!?!
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Ian Godfrey
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:58 am    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

Dorigtt, those are weather sealed monoballs from Elephant racing:
https://www.elephantracing.com/944/weather-sealed-monoballs-for-944/trailing-arm-monoball-cartridge/
the bit that is red in the picture slides out and I took about 8mm off that so the arm would offset the max towards the centre of the car.
here's pic of the uniball without the red sleeves:

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I also had to turn down the VW pivot bolt to fit:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


normally the washers are on the inside on a VW trailing arm, both are now smaller and on the outside
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TRS63
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:22 am    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

Well thought modifications, a great attention to detail.. I am loving this thread!

Antoine
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My 62 ragtop daily driver:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728873
My 914 restoration&lightweight project :
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9698432#9698432
Resurrecting a 60 ghia : https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=713906
My 52 Standard Zwitter :
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10086685#10086685
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Ian Godfrey
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:24 am    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

the next little step, I finished the hand brake.
to recap, the calipers and cables are from Rally Design in the UK
http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=11370
then I got some swage ends in 6mm, same as VW, and some cheap press dies off Ebay and swaged them on.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


finished cables

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and made up some brackets that attach to the lower shock mount to hold them at a suitable angle

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


and it all works....


Link
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Ian Godfrey
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:35 am    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

Next I've moved on to the engine upgrades.
first up I stripped and cleaned the 48IDA's and added JMP 40mm venturies and velocity stacks. You'll see the new venturies have no secondary venturi Idea
It will be interesting to see how they work. I'm hoping for better throttle response and good top end. The old venturies were traditional 42mm ones with slightly shorter Berg stacks and the carbies were a bit temperamental in the mid range even with a third hole drilled.

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halbug
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

Nice attention to details Ian!

You know how much I appriciate this Laughing Laughing Laughing

Cheers
Lars
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Stealth Ghia Transformation: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7226044&highlight=#7226044
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Ian Godfrey
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:38 am    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

not much visible progress recently, I've been pulling down my motor and measuring a lot for the rebuild. I did do some more work on the carbies and made a bracket for the Throttle Position Sensor from a kit made for 50DCO's


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I also got my new starter from Brise, less than 1/2 the weight of a SR17 or 15


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halbug
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:58 am    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

Ian, the mass difference of the starters is amazing. Are those starters having any disadvantages for street use?

What is this second gear on the starter for???

Do you have a correct part number for the Type1 handy?

Thanks for sharing all those racer tips Cool

Cheers
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Ian Godfrey
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:01 am    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

Lars, thanks for the comments, the 'second gear' is the reflection in the top of the scales Laughing
no down side that i can see other than cost Crying or Very sad
I'll check the part number for you.
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halbug
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:20 am    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

Ups Laughing Laughing Laughing

Of course... no magic technolog with second gear.... one never knows, what kind of tricks you dig out Very Happy

Cheers
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Stealth Ghia Transformation: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7226044&highlight=#7226044
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Ian Godfrey
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

the Brise starter is part number:
763509AXGAC
it also fits some early porsche 911
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halbug
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 69 road race Ghia rebuild Reply with quote

Ian, did you maybe forget a number and it is 7635091AXGAC?

This is a Porsche starter and the only one I could find.

Thank you
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