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70IowaBeetle
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 110
Location: Northeast Iowa
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 Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:53 am Post subject: Alternator wiring help |
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Ladies & Gentlemen,
I recently purchased a buggy which has an older 4 wire alternator (including the battery). It doesn't charge, but the wiring is somewhat messed up. So, I'm trying to clean it up and see if it will charge.
It has the older Motorola Regulator with it. Here is what I have done to date. (this is utilizing existing wiring where possible (meaning not stock mostly, because I don't think there is any stock harness left).
Alternator side......plug......Regulator side
DF....................Blue.....|........Green
D-..................Yellow....|........Brown
? (not labeled)..............|.....
Currently unused.  Is this chassis ground?
B+..................battery..
* The blue wire from the Regulator was/is hooked to the blue wire that runs to the dash (but not attached to anything). I know I have yet to install a working alternator idiot light to make the alternator charge.
* The red wire from the Regulator is/was attached to the positive side of the starter solenoid. (why such a heavy gauge, I don't know)
*there is also a hot wire running directly from the battery to the dash for power and the key.
My question is How much of this do I now have correct? I know I am missing some wiring. I just want to get it right before I fire it up to see if it will charge.
Does the regulator case have to be grounded?
The first photo is what is currently connected to the alternator (after changing things around.
The second photo is of the connection at the regulator plug.
_________________
Mike
1 wife, 2 kids, 1 dog
2017 Dodge Ram 1500 Big Horn Crew 4x4; hemi
2014 Chrysler 300; awd; 3.6 v6
2006 Ford Freestyle SEL AWD
2005 Buick LeSabre Custom
1970 Standard Beetle
1962 VW Dune Buggy
2020 Keystone Bullet 291RLS
Kubota bx2350 |
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70IowaBeetle
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 110
Location: Northeast Iowa
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator wiring help |
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OK, a little more investigation. I've gotten the idiot light hooked up.
It would appear that there was a 12v power to the regulator via a red wire from the starter solenoid. This was hot once the switch was on. I've unhooked that, hooked up the D+ to the red wire coming from the regulator. I tried both hooking the blue wire to the dash with the D+ going to the regulator, and just hooking the blue from the dash to the blue wire from the regulator. None of these did anything. no light on the dash(yes the bulb works.
I'm guessing 12v constant power to the regulator probably did it in. can anyone confirm? I really debating on replacing the alternator with a new internally regulated alternator. would make it a lot easier.
_________________
Mike
1 wife, 2 kids, 1 dog
2017 Dodge Ram 1500 Big Horn Crew 4x4; hemi
2014 Chrysler 300; awd; 3.6 v6
2006 Ford Freestyle SEL AWD
2005 Buick LeSabre Custom
1970 Standard Beetle
1962 VW Dune Buggy
2020 Keystone Bullet 291RLS
Kubota bx2350 |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator wiring help |
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Its this simple...
Any you probably don't need capacitor on B+ it was probably put there to silence any buzz in radio...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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70IowaBeetle
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 110
Location: Northeast Iowa
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator wiring help |
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Thanks! I believe I now have it wired correctly. Only problem, is the idiot light does not come on with the key and it isn't charging. I know it works, as I hooked the blue wire to the battery and it works. I hate to spend $50 for a regulator and have the alternator not work either.
Thoughts?
_________________
Mike
1 wife, 2 kids, 1 dog
2017 Dodge Ram 1500 Big Horn Crew 4x4; hemi
2014 Chrysler 300; awd; 3.6 v6
2006 Ford Freestyle SEL AWD
2005 Buick LeSabre Custom
1970 Standard Beetle
1962 VW Dune Buggy
2020 Keystone Bullet 291RLS
Kubota bx2350 |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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70IowaBeetle
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 110
Location: Northeast Iowa
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:05 am Post subject: Re: Alternator wiring help |
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Thanks. That is probably what I'm going to do. Is there anyway to test the regulator?
_________________
Mike
1 wife, 2 kids, 1 dog
2017 Dodge Ram 1500 Big Horn Crew 4x4; hemi
2014 Chrysler 300; awd; 3.6 v6
2006 Ford Freestyle SEL AWD
2005 Buick LeSabre Custom
1970 Standard Beetle
1962 VW Dune Buggy
2020 Keystone Bullet 291RLS
Kubota bx2350 |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Alternator wiring help |
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| 70IowaBeetle wrote: |
| Thanks. That is probably what I'm going to do. Is there anyway to test the regulator? |
Not sure, never had to, always used 1 wire alternators... Is regulator body grounded?... Usually in sedan it mounted on metal surface so grounding may be issue if you have it on fiberglass... Late model wiring diagram for alternators does show a path to ground from regulator body...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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70IowaBeetle
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 110
Location: Northeast Iowa
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Alternator wiring help |
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Currently, the regulator is just hanging from the plug. I did wonder about grounding the body, but what I saw in my book, it didn't show grounding if I remember correctly. I will give that a try before ordering an alternator.
_________________
Mike
1 wife, 2 kids, 1 dog
2017 Dodge Ram 1500 Big Horn Crew 4x4; hemi
2014 Chrysler 300; awd; 3.6 v6
2006 Ford Freestyle SEL AWD
2005 Buick LeSabre Custom
1970 Standard Beetle
1962 VW Dune Buggy
2020 Keystone Bullet 291RLS
Kubota bx2350 |
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70IowaBeetle
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 110
Location: Northeast Iowa
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator wiring help |
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One last question. Since the speedometer is from a '62 and a generator, the current idiot light is hooked up, but in the bezel, it goes to ground as the 3 bulbs are all grounded together. I'm thinking that won't work if I've understood the need of the alternator and I need to wire the ground wire of the idiot light to a 12V source that is momentary.
Is that correct? I want to make sure I've ruled everything out before purchasing a new alternator.
thanks
_________________
Mike
1 wife, 2 kids, 1 dog
2017 Dodge Ram 1500 Big Horn Crew 4x4; hemi
2014 Chrysler 300; awd; 3.6 v6
2006 Ford Freestyle SEL AWD
2005 Buick LeSabre Custom
1970 Standard Beetle
1962 VW Dune Buggy
2020 Keystone Bullet 291RLS
Kubota bx2350 |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator wiring help |
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The bulbs are not grounded in bazel, the three bulbs are connected to 12 volts to shell of bulb, the terminals on end of bulb sockets wire to devices...
The single tab at the location of three bulbs have a connection on it to 12 volts whenever key is on...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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70IowaBeetle
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 110
Location: Northeast Iowa
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator wiring help |
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THANKS!
Then I guess, my alternator/regulator is junk because my idiot light doesn't light and the bulb does work when connected directly to the battery I will do some further investigation.
_________________
Mike
1 wife, 2 kids, 1 dog
2017 Dodge Ram 1500 Big Horn Crew 4x4; hemi
2014 Chrysler 300; awd; 3.6 v6
2006 Ford Freestyle SEL AWD
2005 Buick LeSabre Custom
1970 Standard Beetle
1962 VW Dune Buggy
2020 Keystone Bullet 291RLS
Kubota bx2350 |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Alternator wiring help |
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With key ON but engine not running put a ground on D+ wire at alternator... Does lamp light...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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70IowaBeetle
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 110
Location: Northeast Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Alternator wiring help |
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It does not light, but the common "power" wire on the back of the bezel is currently connected to the grounding screw on the back of the bezel. The wiring in this buggy is not a stock wiring harness and by the looks/sounds of it, pretty screwed up possibly.
_________________
Mike
1 wife, 2 kids, 1 dog
2017 Dodge Ram 1500 Big Horn Crew 4x4; hemi
2014 Chrysler 300; awd; 3.6 v6
2006 Ford Freestyle SEL AWD
2005 Buick LeSabre Custom
1970 Standard Beetle
1962 VW Dune Buggy
2020 Keystone Bullet 291RLS
Kubota bx2350 |
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Q-Dog
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8699
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Alternator wiring help |
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The common terminal for the 3 light cluster needs 12volt from the ignition switch. Connecting it to ground is wrong. Lots of people get this wrong.
The ground is through the alt, or through the oil sender, or through the turn signal relay. It is backwards from the other lights on the cluster, that is why those 3 lights have an insulator around them in the gauge.
Get the light working properly. Your alt may be fine, as the alternator needs the idiot light to work for it to charge properly.
_________________
Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Alternator wiring help |
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Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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70IowaBeetle
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 110
Location: Northeast Iowa
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Alternator wiring help |
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It would appear that is it now charging, at least to some extent. I'm not sure what the voltage output should be on these alternators, but it is higher than the battery when its not running.
I ran a wire from the ign. terminal to the cluster as shown. The idiot light comes on, goes out and getting about 13.5V when running.
THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO GAVE ME ADVICE AND HELP.
No on to other issues like the clutch and carb.
_________________
Mike
1 wife, 2 kids, 1 dog
2017 Dodge Ram 1500 Big Horn Crew 4x4; hemi
2014 Chrysler 300; awd; 3.6 v6
2006 Ford Freestyle SEL AWD
2005 Buick LeSabre Custom
1970 Standard Beetle
1962 VW Dune Buggy
2020 Keystone Bullet 291RLS
Kubota bx2350 |
|
| Back to top |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator wiring help |
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13.5 in minimum for charging... 14.0 (with volt meter) would be better....
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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