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help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues
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alman72
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

I really would like to get my fuel vent lines back into stock shape. I am missing some parts, and don't know what other parts look like. Let me start with the charcoal can. Looking on the forums, it should be on the top of the engine compartment, but I have a clamp for it on the firewall.

the little bits of tubing that go bad have been replaced, but I don't know what is going on here-
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some pics i have seen have the canister here, but different tubing config.


the PO took this off, and plugged it with a sparkplug. when i get all parts in, i will just put it on the nipple. any reason besides missing canister/airfilter that this would be plugged off?
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here is a canister i can run thru a vac oven. or run as is. will it work?
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and lastly, the posts i have read indicate that the other big line off the canister go into the air cleaner. I think mine is gone. I could not find a pic for a 73.
anyone have a pic of an air cleaner for a 73? or whatever years were the same?

I have this that was aquired in a box of parts, but dont think it is an air cleaner, or even for a bus. Is it an oil bath?
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thanks for any help. dont be hard on the grime or funky wire routing. Not me. working on it.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

It looks like you have a center mount progressive carb, so there is really no system that is an exact fit for your fuel tank ventilation system. The European system of that era just vented the tank into the air cleaner without using a carbon canister and that is the easiest thing to do. You can actually vent it to just outside the air cleaner and it will work pretty well.

To hook up the carbon canister you need to under stand how it works and that its operation is somewhat unique to an air cooled engine. Not particularly hard to do, but you will not be able to have a valve controlling the vapor release from the carbon canister as per the FI rigs.

What do you have in the way of a crankcase ventilation system? A good functioning crankcase ventilation system is important not just to reduce pollution and stink, but to prolong engine life.


Last edited by Wildthings on Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

Here's a solution: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2161187 , send them to Tim @ Volkzbitz and after there will be no confusion over where to connect stuff and why it runs bad or gobbles gas. Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

Evaporative Emission Control EVAP/Charcoal, Carbon Canister
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xyzzy
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

I'll make you a video tomorrow morning when its light out. I have a 73 that has all the stock components. The spark plug in the braided hose looks like the crankcase breather hose that goes from that nipple to the charcoal canister (overhead). The air cleaner you need is the box-filter with the pizza-slice arms shown in the classifieds link for the dual carb setup.
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

1973-74 Air cleaner
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alman72
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:42 am    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
It looks like you have a center mount progressive carb, so there is really no system that is an exact fit for your fuel tank ventilation system. The European system of that era just vented the tank into the air cleaner without using a carbon canister and that is the easiest thing to do. You can actually vent it to just outside the air cleaner and it will work pretty well.

To hook up the carbon canister you need to under stand how it works and that its operation is somewhat unique to an air cooled engine. Not particularly hard to do, but you will not be able to have a valve controlling the vapor release from the carbon canister as per the FI rigs.

What do you have in the way of a crankcase ventilation system? A good functioning crankcase ventilation system is important not just to reduce pollution and stink, but to prolong engine life.


I believe I still have the stock. It is the box to the right of the distributor, correct? it vents into the bottom of my center mount carb. into the bottom tin of the air filter.


Last edited by alman72 on Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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alman72
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:53 am    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

xyzzy wrote:
I'll make you a video tomorrow morning when its light out. I have a 73 that has all the stock components. The spark plug in the braided hose looks like the crankcase breather hose that goes from that nipple to the charcoal canister (overhead). The air cleaner you need is the box-filter with the pizza-slice arms shown in the classifieds link for the dual carb setup.

the braided hose with the plug actually goes to the back of the engine, and dives under the tin. I will see where that goes when I get home tonight. Is that where the crankcase breather is?
what is this then? (this is not mine, just grabbed out of the gallery)
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:30 am    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

alman72 wrote:
xyzzy wrote:
I'll make you a video tomorrow morning when its light out. I have a 73 that has all the stock components. The spark plug in the braided hose looks like the crankcase breather hose that goes from that nipple to the charcoal canister (overhead). The air cleaner you need is the box-filter with the pizza-slice arms shown in the classifieds link for the dual carb setup.

the braided hose with the plug actually goes to the back of the engine, and dives under the tin. I will see where that goes when I get home tonight. Is that where the crankcase breather is?
what is this then? (this is not mine, just grabbed out of the gallery)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Does your brake booster seem to work? Your braided hose could be for your booster. Often when people install aftermarket carbs the vacuum line for the booster has no where to go so they leave it off.

Yes what you have circled is your crankcase breather and it should be connected in to your air cleaner. My experience says to make sure the line from the booster to air cleaner has a good slope to it and definitely no low spots that can trap engine snot. If the condensate can not drain back into the engine aftershut down it will accumulate and eventually block the flow of blowby causing high case pressure which will blow oil or through any available orifice. I have my breather line run into the top of my air cleaner to give it sufficient slope.

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You can see how much slope my breather hose has in this picture.

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alman72
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:10 am    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

it has great slope as it goes up to the bottom of the air filter on the center mount carb.
my center mount carb also has a nipple off the back of the manifold that goes to the brake booster. Another thing I will try to confirm tonight.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

alman72 wrote:
it has great slope as it goes up to the bottom of the air filter on the center mount carb.
my center mount carb also has a nipple off the back of the manifold that goes to the brake booster. Another thing I will try to confirm tonight.



Most of the ones I have seen lack slope, there is typically a nearly level run or even a droop right at the air cleaner. You are trying to drain a fluid here with about the consistency of warm peanut butter.
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xyzzy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

Here's the routing for my 73 dual carb.


Link

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

I think someone didn't completely understand the use of the word 'plug' in spark plug
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

thanks Xyzzy. So on the right side of the charcoal canister, where the T comes in on the small nipple, the big nipple is not hooked up to anything?

I am missing my airbox for sure. not sure where to plumb the end off the canister.
with my tubes on the top of the engine bay looking to be in the configuration for the charcoal canister and rubber T to be there like a stock 73, but I have the canister clamp on the firewall like other years stock setup.....maybe PO put in a firewall from a different year?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

the braided line plugged off with the sparkplug goes back to the rear of the tin, into a nipple. went under the bus, removed some tin, and damned if I cant find where the other end of the nipple comes out. I did find, however, that the braided hose that used to be on the evasive nipple, has been mated to a new vac line that goes to the manifold under my center mount carb.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

alman72 wrote:
thanks Xyzzy. So on the right side of the charcoal canister, where the T comes in on the small nipple, the big nipple is not hooked up to anything?

I am missing my airbox for sure. not sure where to plumb the end off the canister.
with my tubes on the top of the engine bay looking to be in the configuration for the charcoal canister and rubber T to be there like a stock 73, but I have the canister clamp on the firewall like other years stock setup.....maybe PO put in a firewall from a different year?


Yes, on mine I have that hose off at the moment, but it goes from the right side of the charcoal canister to the port on top of the air cleaner box.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

xyzzy wrote:
alman72 wrote:
thanks Xyzzy. So on the right side of the charcoal canister, where the T comes in on the small nipple, the big nipple is not hooked up to anything?

I am missing my airbox for sure. not sure where to plumb the end off the canister.
with my tubes on the top of the engine bay looking to be in the configuration for the charcoal canister and rubber T to be there like a stock 73, but I have the canister clamp on the firewall like other years stock setup.....maybe PO put in a firewall from a different year?


Yes, on mine I have that hose off at the moment, but it goes from the right side of the charcoal canister to the port on top of the air cleaner box.


thank you. huge help.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

Not to hi jack this post, but I am having a similar issue. I just bought a '73 and one of the POs removed most of the emissions control and looks like they re-piped some of the central idle control for the brake booster. I am trying to figure out what I need to put back in place or if what the PO did is ok. The fuel vent goes to the carbon canister, but the other side of the canister is blocked off.

Currently I am rebuilding the carbs due to a fuel leak in one of them. It would sort of start, but not hold an idle.

You can see what I have left of the emissions system in the pictures. Any help would be appreciated.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

were it me on an old pre-smog bus I might consider just plugging the evap system off, and using a vented gas cap. One is more likely to end up with a fire from a broken evap system dripping fuel onto the engine than a vented cap causing issues. In addition, if you just put it to the air cleaner, which some do, one must add a flame trap to prevent a backfire from requiring a fire truck to put a fire out. Same for a crankcase breather line plugged to the top of the air cleaner. The CO blowby in the crankcase is very flammable. A flame trap can just be some brass wool stuffed into a big line etc. The breather filter on air cleaners is designed to not only keep dirt out of the engine, but to stop a flame front.

example

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: help with 73 bay fuel vent PO issues Reply with quote

Howdy gang,
I'm going through a similar process with my 74 westy. PO removed the charcoal canister, and joined the gas tank vent lines in the roof of the engine compartment to each other instead of into a Tee. Also, oil breather line from crank case vent goes into a nipple in top of air cleaner cover on Weber progressive center mount carb.

A couple questions. I don't think there is a flame trap in the oil breather line. It's joined with a PCV valve that has been drilled out so it is really just a coupler. Can I stuff some brass/copper/bronze wool in there as a flame trap? Should it be fine like wool or coarse like a copper scrub sponge? How tight does it get packed in? Is there a worry a back fire could push the flame trap material into the engine?

Second, I couldn't locate the proper charcoal canister for my bus, but I have a new charcoal canister in the vertical plastic case used on later buses and vanagons that I modified to fit.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


My original canister was mounted horizontally to the fire wall. I will mount this one in the same place, but vertically. The modern one has the same three lines, 1 small inlet from gas tank vent tee, 1 large inlet from fan shroud nipple and another large one from the snout outlet. I used a nylon barb adapter to get the wide snout down to 1/2 inch line that I will use with another nipple into the top of the air cleaner cover. Same question about flame trap. How coarse/fine should it be and how tight should I pack it into the hose? Is it better closer to the air cleaner or closer to the charcoal canister?

Anything else I should be worried about? I've changed all my rubber filler hoses and vent lines, but there is still a slight gas smell I'd like to get rid of as well as do my small part to save the ozone layer. Smile

Thanks for any help or advice you can give.
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