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Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)?
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ivwshane
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:50 pm    Post subject: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

I'm doing some basic maintenance while my engine and transmission are out and I need to re seal the nose cone after replacing the selector link ball joint with a metal one and the shaft seal.

I have a couple of questions though.

I have a gasket for the nose cone which I assume goes between the steel plate and the nose cone but does the steel plate need to be sealed on the transmission side? If so, what is recommended?

My steel plate has a groove in it (crescent shaped) should it be replaced? If so, is there a part # for it or a proper name to search for?

My inner shift lever's shaft looks worn, does it also need to be replaced (there are no cracks in it)?

Lastly, is my 3 rib transmission correct/stock for my, supposedly, 2lt engine (GE case with solid lifters)? If not, what should it be and what are the benefits of changing it out?

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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

the 002 is more prone to the bearing walking. You can get a new plate from Ron Weddle https://weddleindustries.com/products/1000292/1002215
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

The metal plate isnít original. Itís a repair. You need a gasket on both sides so that means buying another gasket set. Replace all worn parts you question. Itís just too much work so do it right the first time
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ivwshane
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
the 002 is more prone to the bearing walking. You can get a new plate from Ron Weddle https://weddleindustries.com/products/1000292/1002215


The 002 is not the correct transmission then, is it? I thought that the 002 on a 2lt engine would have trouble getting to 70-75 mph? I also thought it would run at a lower rpm and therefore reduce the cooling capabilities of the fan. Is that true?

If I were to buy a remanufactured 6 rib, what else would I need to change out? The starter? Flywheel? What about the shift rod?

Is there a recommended place to buy remanufactured transmissions from?
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ivwshane
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
The metal plate isnít original. Itís a repair. You need a gasket on both sides so that means buying another gasket set. Replace all worn parts you question. Itís just too much work so do it right the first time


I'm trying to do it right but it doesn't seem like its right to begin with. I also don't know what right is supposed to be:|
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Last edited by ivwshane on Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

Ok, so you have a 1977 with a 2L engine? Some hack installed a three rib 002 at some point? You need to find a good 091 six rib to make this right. Problem is they arenít just sold by Autozone. Youíll need to source one. Hereís a few businesses to call after you check the samba classifieds.

Weddle
KRC
Transworks
The bus box

Iím sure others can add to this list.
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ivwshane
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

Any issues with rancho or mofoco?




Let me back up for a second because I assumed many things about my bus that have turned out not to be true.

For example, my engine case has a GE number on it. That is a 1.8L, correct? For a 77 a stock engine should be a 2.0L WITH a CV engine code, correct?

So for a 1.8L with a GE code, what is the correct transmission it should have?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:56 am    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

ivwshane wrote:
Any issues with rancho or mofoco?




Let me back up for a second because I assumed many things about my bus that have turned out not to be true.

For example, my engine case has a GE number on it. That is a 1.8L, correct? For a 77 a stock engine should be a 2.0L WITH a CV engine code, correct?

So for a 1.8L with a GE code, what is the correct transmission it should have?


GD - 1976-77 Bus, 2.0 liter, L-Jetronic, Solid Lifter
GE - 1978-79 Bus, 2.0 liter, L-Jetronic, Hydraulic Lifter (1978: oval exhaust ports / 1979: square ports.)
CV - 1980-83 Vanagon, 2.0 liter, L-Jetronic, Hydraulic Lifter
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THall
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

THall wrote:
ivwshane wrote:
Any issues with rancho or mofoco?




Let me back up for a second because I assumed many things about my bus that have turned out not to be true.

For example, my engine case has a GE number on it. That is a 1.8L, correct? For a 77 a stock engine should be a 2.0L WITH a CV engine code, correct?

So for a 1.8L with a GE code, what is the correct transmission it should have?


GD - 1976-77 Bus, 2.0 liter, L-Jetronic, Solid Lifter
GE - 1978-79 Bus, 2.0 liter, L-Jetronic, Hydraulic Lifter (1978: oval exhaust ports / 1979: square ports.)
CV - 1980-83 Vanagon, 2.0 liter, L-Jetronic, Hydraulic Lifter

The 091...Aka the 6-rib are found in '76-'79 Bus.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

Shane - you should have a GD engine with either solid or hydraulic lifters depending on when it was made. The trans should be an 091. Your 002 trans is geared too low for a 2L engine. According to Rick Long, you can use a paper gasket on one side and RTV on the other if you wish.

To be clear - EVERY bay trans that VW made has the issue where the bearing eats into the nosecone. The 091 uses a half moon key to hold the bearing and slow the process. Know those threads where folks complain their trans pops out of 4th gear? That is caused by bearing allowing the gear components to change alignment as that bearing moves into the nosecone. The steel plate is the best solution at this point. You can have the gear carrier sleeved when the trans is completely apart to help slow the process also. We are talking some very special tools to take one of these transmissions apart.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

Iím sure Rancho and Mofoco are fine. Also, even if the engine started life as an 1800, who knows what it is today.
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ivwshane
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

So how the hell would one know what their engine is?

I felt like my bus was driving great already so what difference would I experience if I had a 091 trans?

@SGKent, thanks for Reply. Is there any special type of RTV I should be using? Something for an automatic? Blue rtv is what's on it now. I guess it's kind of a moot point if I need to buy a new transmission.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

the 002 is geared lower so that the engine runs faster on the smaller engines. The 091 is bigger, stronger and the gears are such that the engine runs a little slower - making a better use of power and efficiency.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

There are probably dozens of sealants that would work. In the past Iíve used red rtv. Today I would use Permatex anerobic
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

Permatex 81182 Gear Oil RTV Sealant 3 oz. tube
Specially formulated to withstand the harsh gear oil environment found in differentials and transfer cases.
http://www.bowessealfast.com/p-579-permatex-81182-...BAQAvD_BwE
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ivwshane
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

Oh boy my head hurts!

So I've gotten many quotes about rancho transmissions and the email I received from rancho just kills me.

I explained that I don't have a 091 now and asked if I could purchase a 091 outright. He said they could build me a 091 using a 002 case.

So my question now is; if that's possible then how the hell do I know if that's what I have now?!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

ivwshane wrote:

So my question now is; if that's possible then how the hell do I know if that's what I have now?!

Possible but unlikely.
Put the trans in 4th gear.
Turn the cv hub (ring) 1 revolution.
While counting how many times the input shaft (pinion) turns.

These are the R&P ratios.
Example 68-72 5.37:1 so for every 1 revolution of the Ring gear the Pinion turns 5.37 times.
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Good luck
Tcash
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ivwshane
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

Tcash wrote:
ivwshane wrote:

So my question now is; if that's possible then how the hell do I know if that's what I have now?!

Possible but unlikely.
Put the trans in 4th gear.
Turn the cv hub (ring) 1 revolution.
While counting how many times the input shaft (pinion) turns.

These are the R&P ratios.
Example 68-72 5.37:1 so for every 1 revolution of the Ring gear the Pinion turns 5.37 times.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Good luck
Tcash


Ok that sounds easy enough but how do I put in fourth gear? Push in the top selector key?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

ivwshane wrote:

Ok that sounds easy enough but how do I put in fourth gear? Push in the top selector key?


Put the nose cone back on. The nose cone has to go on with the transmission in neutral.

Looking at the nose cone end. Rotate the selector shaft counter clock wise and pull out on it. That is 4th
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Sealing the nose cone (with steel plate)? Reply with quote

Shane - the case on an 091 is better than the 002. If your 002 works then you can sell it after you find an 091. The best place to have a 091 rebuilt is Eric at Transworks in El Cajon CA, down near AeroMech. That comes from Rick Long when he retired. 091 come up for sale all the time - you just won't know what condition they are in until you either run it or someone like Eric takes it apart. There is one in Elverta in CL right now. Offer the guy $450 and see if he will take that or $100 more since he can't guarantee it works. Lots of sandrail folks buy them. https://sacramento.craigslist.org/pts/d/vw-busrib-transmission/6631355808.html
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