Paint prep questions

[1600buggy]

I got my body with pretty heavy damage on the right fender area, it was cracked through and missing chunks. That has all been ground away and repaired with new glass. It also had old metalflake gelcoat that had sat in the sun for years and you could pick out the flakes with a fingernail, no clearcoat left whatsoever. Now I am looking to paint but have a few questions.

1. I pressure washed the body and alot of flake came off but not all of it. Should I sand down through all the flake to the base color or just get it smooth and go?

2. Ive never painted before but am going to try anyway. Any suggestions on cheap but effective sprayers? This will probably be the only time i ever use it. I was told a gravity feed would be better. ( I have a large air compressor).

3. I am thinking an orange color with flake but its not a must. Should a newb attempt flake?

4. It was suggested I use epoxy primer 401 and a primer surfacer. Anybody go this route on a buggy before?

I know there are many paint threads on here and I have read alot of them. Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated.

This is before any sanding or prep and the flames were just paint and are long gone.

[Dale M.]

Keep working body till all flake is either gone or baby butt smooth... Seal with epoxy high build primer, several coats, sand till baby butt smooth, spray with HVLP gun... Surprising enough the not to expensive ones from HF do decent job, but final outcome will depend on your skills....Be sure to have moisture trap on air line... Minor orange peel and runs can be sanded out after paint has been allowed to cure... So don't panic...

JUst remember most really good paint jobs come from preparation, not necessarily the final color coat...

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[vwracerdave]

The Samba also has a Body/Paint forum. There are many talented paint & body guys that do not look here in the Buggy forums that can help you.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewforum.php?f=13
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63

Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos

[jspbtown]

Here is my 2 cents

1 Remove any loose flake. You are better off being too aggressive on this than not aggressive enough. You don't want anything loose in the substrate.
2. Fill any low spots or imperfections with a high quality body filler. (I like Rage Gold).
3. Spray several coats of a high build polyester primer. Like Evercoat Slicksand or G2. Use at least a 1.8mm tip. A 2.0 tip would be better
4. Guidecoat
5. Sand smooth with a final 600 grit
6. Spray a sealer coat of reduced epoxy
7. Paint with a metallic paint (I think flake would be too hard for a 1st timer)
8. 3-4 coats clear.

Harboir Freight sells decent guns and I have seen good Devilbliss (sp?) kits with two guns going for pretty cheap. With a nice carrying case.

[62kellison]

jspbtown what is number 4 guide coat?.fairly new to painting myself.sorry to jump in.i am headed towards painting mine in the fall.

[finster]

a guide coat is a black 'dust' coat laid over filler/primer which is then block sanded off to reveal low spots, scratches or other imperfections not easily seen by eye. eastwood do a rattle can guide coat or 3m do a dry wipe-on one.

[jspbtown]

[57BLITZ]

[jspbtown]

Well I never have. That doesn't mean you can't of course. But if you think epoxy is going to hold down loose flake you are mistaken.

I have done some VERY extensive bodywork (I wish my photobucket was still working....) and I never sealed a repair with epoxy. And that includes grafting an entire front fender I got from Henry at Intermecanica onto a CMCSpeedster.

Will it hurt? I don't think so.

[1600buggy]

Thank you all for the tips so far, I am looking at the devilbiss starting line kit or the TCP global kit on Amazon. There is somewhere around a 50 dollar price difference but both are reasonable I think. Just off the recommendation here, I decided to do a metallic paint instead of a flake. Images online still look really nice and will probably save me some headache. So for guidecoat i will just do the spray can but in the videos I've watched they're using up to 18 inch flat sanding block with the guide coat, I'm wondering what the biggest I could use on a buggy is given all the complex curves and no straight lines to speak of. I have a DA but would it be best to just do it by hand?

The issue with the loose flake is I got alot of it off with the pressure washer and I then sanded more off but it then sat outside for a bit. So I pressure washed some dirt and dust off it and I was surprised to find that more flake came off so now I am sanding again. It was "Baby butt" smooth before the second pressure washing. Would you consider that still too loose? Also, How much should I worry about the tiny pits that show up after a flake is gone? i was told not to worry and the primer would get them.

I'm learning quickly thanks to you guys! maybe there will be another buggy on the road soon

[jspbtown]

Good call on the flake. You will be happy with the metallic. Make sure you do a "drop coat' (you can ask when its time).

You really don't want "baby butt smooth" before primer. Some of my more nasty projects I used 40 grit on my DA to really cut through the layers of paint. You want some tooth.

The polyester high build is like sprayable bondo so it will fill in a good amount of pits but anything too big should be filled with a good two party filler.

Once you have sprayed 2-3 coats of the high build is when you use your guide coat. The larger and flatter the panel the more important the long board is. You can get away with a much shorter board on the buggy given all the curves. You just don't want to sand in the same line for long periods and if you use your hands in complex curves don't use too much pressure on your fingers or you will groove the primer.

Remember....for metallic you want to finish with 600 grit.

[1600buggy]

So I was in the paint store and was told I would need another gun (2.0mm tip) to spray the high build polyester slicksand type material. It was suggested I go with a high build epoxy primer and spray it with the 1.8 that I will more than likely be getting. I have nothing against the polyester other than I dont want to buy another gun. I see you say "at least" a 1.8 tip on an above post. Insights? The gun kit I am looking at has a 1.3, 1.5 and 1.8. It is the DeVilbiss 802342 StartingLine

[Ken]

Just because I like to "brag" about my little girl because of the medical issues she has had to endure...... She is 12 years old when I taught her to paint, and she did a great job, so with a little patience, practice, and guidance from the members here, I'm sure you will do just fine. I did the majority of body work, but she did a lot too. I did almost all the sanding, because she wasn't able to perform it without over tiring because of her medical issue. I sprayed high build 2k (2 part catalyzed primer) primer, sanded down to 180 with a guide coat 3 times, as the body was very bad, I also did the whole underside, and I did a huge nose transformation which took a lot of time. We then used a "cheap" PPG brand of orange as a base and put on a full pound of flake in an intercoat clear. We used .004 Orange, .004 Gold, .008 Orange, & .015 Orange flakes sizes. Then sprayed 5 coats of clear over it all. I am NOT a painter, but have been around many shops, and have a couple of friends who are well known, dare I say "famous" in the HotRod/Street Rod world, who I asked a lot of advice.

[Ken]

We did it in my garage putting up plastic and taping it to the rafters and floor, 2 furnace filters taped to the plastic on one end, and 2 box fans and filters on the other to build a cross flow booth. Yes we had a couple of runs, yes we had a couple of specks of dirt even though I cleaned/ cleaned/ cleaned everything I could,but the amount of flake we used coved and hid any dirt, and the runs were cut and buffed after the paint cured. We are very happy with the results, and while I do have a decent Binks color gun, I used a cheap Harbor freight gun for ALL the primer spraying, and the flake spraying because I drilled out the tip for the thicker primer and bigger flake. Give it a try.....any screw ups can be sanded down and re-sprayed!!

[jspbtown]

A 1.8mm tip will shoot your polyester high build primer just fine. You can also thin it with 10% acetone if you like.

[1600buggy]

I just ordered the DeVilbiss 802342 StartingLine two gun kit with the carrying case I mentioned above and I believe it comes with a 1.3 and a 1.8 tip. you said 1.8 would shoot the primer but is the 1.3 fine for the metallic base and clear? ken, I think Ive been following your build on and off for a bit now. Glad to see it turned out nice! I am getting excited.

[jspbtown]

The 1.3mm is fine. I have used a 1.3mm and 1.8mm to paint many fiberglass buggies and kit cars.

[1600buggy]

Update time: It is primed! I have sanded the old flake as much as I could handle without going insane! it was pretty smooth with no loose flakes detectable but still a fair amount of small pits. I sprayed 2 coats of 2k urethane primer over that, blocked it at 180 dry and had many spots that went through. I then sprayed another coat over that focusing on the spots that went through. It took out a lot of the pits but not all of the deepest ones. That being said I think it looks and feels good. I just wet sanded at 320 and once it all drys I will guidecoat it and wet sand at 600. I also have a "sunset orange pearl" base/clear ready to go. If I spray guidecoat do I need to get it all off before spraying base? Also is 600 wet good as a final step for my pearl paint? Should I be higher or lower at all? Hoping to spray base tomorrow! When I do that, do I follow it immediately with clear or does the base cure first? Lastly when wet sanding at 320 I just started to see the gelcoat in a few spots so backed of. I am nearly out of primer but just want to make sure this wont be an issue with adhesion. The spots are small and in areas that aren't really visible.

(in the pic there will be upholstery in the "back seat" area so I'm not worried about that sand through)

[rugblaster]

That looks good. Get the spec sheets for your base and clear and use the graduated mix cups they have do your ratios. ie. paint,reducer and hardener if used....You will find out the base color goes on like primer. I'd do 2 or 3 coats of that. Same with the clear, minimum 3 coats to give you enough to color sand and buff. First coat of clear is a bond coat and then 2 wet coats. The clear is what I've had trouble with. It stays tacky much longer, so be careful. One thing a friend of mine told me was to have a test panel handy and with each coat, base or clear, shoot the test panel and use it to tell you when to shoot the next coat on. Just use your finger to touch the panel and see when the paint just bearly leaves strings off your finger when you pull it up off the tester, but not so dry it won't leave a fingerprint. Weather conditions dictate some of this, so flash times can vary. If you get in a hurry between coats it causes problems.
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!

[rugblaster]

and use a tack rag (available at the paint vendor) before shooting.
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!