Car starts but quickly stalls out

[ShakeyVW]

[johnwiththree]

Thanks for the input. I did do a smoke test and found one small leak. I put a New hose and clamp but still getting the same issue.

the car is trying to start but stalls immediately.

Im thinking that checking fuel pressure would be a good next step. What is the best place and way to test. I have a pressure gage but not sure where to cut it in.

What should pressure be ?

Thanks

[johnwiththree]

I completed the smoke test and found a small leak on the AAR hose which was corrected. Still same issue.

I pulled the AAR and used Jimbo suggestion of looking at it at room temp, putting it in the freezer and then in the oven at 160 degrees. The regulator does not seem to move. It is partially open. I have included three pictures to show room temp, freezer and oven.

based on this does it look like the regulator is not working and should be replace? Would it stuck in this position cause the stall out right after start I am getting.

Thanks

[Randy in Maine]

Don't buy a new one yet....

http://www.itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=7834

[johnwiththree]

certainly no harm in giving this a try. Thanks

[VW_Jimbo]

Yep! Thats what it does when it stops working correctly!

I have never rebuilt one, but there was a guy in Socal that did. I do not remember his name. Sorry.
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[johnwiththree]

I put an Allen wrench in and I can manually move and create a bigger opening. But not able to hold in a wider position. I have a bug guy locally that carries parts and he has a used one (guess they don't make these any more) which he claims is tested and functional for 100 bucks.

Seems like the right choice at this point.

Thanks and will update tomorrow after I swap this out. Either way this part is clearly not working properly.

You have to love the old cars

[johnwiththree]

Tonight I replaced AAR and although I'm certain the old part was not working still no start.

I do not have any vacuum leaks, I can turn ignition on and push flap in the air flow regulator and hear the fuel pump energize however I'm not sure I am getting fuel?

Should I next focus on fuel pressure? What is the best way to test the fuel pressure.

The car wants to start but stalls almost immediately.

Thanks

[VW_Jimbo]

Will it run if you shoot small shots of carb cleaner at the air filter nozzle?
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[johnwiththree]

Yes if I shoot fluid into the air I take it will start and run for a short period of time ?

[busdaddy]

[johnwiththree]

I was planning on using my fuel pressure test gage and getting a fitting to put a T in the line.

Are you saying I should leave the line to the cold start open and discharge into a container?

What is the pressure that I should be seeing on the fuel gage and what is the flow? I plan on doing this tonight after I get the fittings.

Thanks for the heads up on disconnecting at the coil. I would have completely missed that

[Dwayne1m]

You don't need any fittings if you just tie into where it feeds the CSV. Just put the pressure gauge in place of the CSV. The CSV will then be disabled which isn't a problem at the moment.

You're shooting for approximately 35PSI. If you get in that neighborhood let it sit for a while with the engine off and see if the pressure holds or drops.

[johnwiththree]

I just pulled the line off the Cold start and put a line on dating into a bucket. Energized the pump with the flap in the air flow sensor. The pump did energize and I got a rush of fuel which immediately became a trickle of fuel. If I kept the pump energized for about 15 seconds the flow stopped completely even though the pump was still energized.

Is it worth rigging up a gage or does this prove up a bad fuel pump ?

[VW_Jimbo]

It may be a bad pump or an inlet line issue. If you are certain the feeder line to the pump is okay, then I would venture TO GUESS that the pump is not functioning correctly. However, being a good mechanic, I would test the pump for pressure and volume, removed from the car, before replacing.
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[johnwiththree]

Thanks - I did drive the car a few times so the inlet lines where working then. That is not so say that they didn't plug.

I have another fuel pump and need to replace the rear fuel lines any way. I can check to make certain I am getting fuel through them before I replace. I also need to replace the fuel lines from the tank to the pump so need to take it apart anyway.

I can check the pump once I get it out and before I replace it.

Thanks and will update tomorrow. Hopefully after I take it for a spin around the neighborhood.

[johnwiththree]

I changed the pump today and still the same issue. here is what I know

feeder line to the pump are clear. I left some fuel in the tank to see if it would drain and it did when I pulled the pump.

I am getting fuel at the cold start for a split second then it dries right up.

I need some additional fitting to get a pressure gage on and will head to the plumbing supply house in the morning to get them and see what the pressure is when the pump is entergized.

The car wants to start but it really feels like is not getting fuel. After I changed the pump it ran for about 20 second but was struggling. Now nothing at all.

Are there any pressure valves that would stop fuel flow at the start that could be playing into this.

Thanks

[Dwayne1m]

other then the FPR & fuel pump there are no mechanical or electrical devices that regulate fuel pressure. Only items I can think of that might impede fuel pressure is a tank that isn't vented properly, clogged/kinked fuel line, or blocked filter. Even if the injectors are clogged or not working at all you should have fuel pressure because it's a continuous loop from the tank, to the pump, to the injectors, to the FPR, then back to the tank.

[VW_Jimbo]

Do you have the skills and knowledge to be able to safely bypass the fuel pump relay? I am not there to judge your skillset. Nor am I there to determine your level of workmanship. Working on fuel systems is dangerous. The threat of fire is omnipresent, so I ask you to do a quick tally and let me know how skilled you are?

I do not want you hurting yourself, nor do I want you to cause any property damage. Give me something about yourself to let me know you have some skills in repairing cars and taking the necessary precautions to keep you and everything thing around you safe.
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[johnwiththree]

I have found fittings to get a gage on cold start. I energized with the air flow and I am getting 33 pounds. Pressure 5 minutes after energized dropped to 30 pounds. (pictures attached )

I was not able to get a T fittings so the line is direct to the gage but the pump is working and I am getting flow (at least initially) at the engine so it would tell me lines are not clogged ?

What is confusing to me is the that yesterday when I checked for flow on the same line I did get a rush of fuel and then it died out. Is this how the cold start works?

I know I don't have vacuum leaks, My pump is now working, the lines don't appear to be clogged, the tank feed is flowing based upon leaving a gallon in when I pulled the pump and it came out without an issue.

Now what ? The car was running prior to me changing the alternator. I also changed the spark plugs and spark plug cables. When I first ran into this I put the old cables back on thinking perhaps the new ones don't fit and I wasn't getting ignition from that. No difference

Jimbo thank you for asking about my background. I appreciate that. I am obviously not a mechanic however I have a manufacturing background in the foundry and machining industry. I understand dependency of systems on equipment and that lack of common sense and knowledge creates damage or even worse.

I recently rebuilt a 95 jeep and much like this process I learned a great deal about the vehicles through the help of guys like you. So hydraulics, electrical and pneumatics are something I deal with daily.

From a safety perspective a fire extinguisher is never far away no matter what Im working on. I have seen more machine fires than I would care for.

Any thoughts on logical next steps would be appreciated