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Syncronoid
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2012
Posts: 1111
Location: Stanford, CA and Bend, OR
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 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues |
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2.5L GW with not a single problem after 60k+ miles.
| jberger wrote: |
I guess I misread your initial description.
A bog off idle can be a mixture issue. On modified engines especially. At idle the FI is bopping along nicely. Open the throttle and the O2 feedback takes a few moments to catch up with what it's seeing. If your initial AFM baseline is not rich enough then that first few moments will be effected by it. I have worked with quite a few modified Digifant engines that needed AFM adjustment to run correctly just off idle.
J |
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'90 Syncro Westy w/GW2.5L |
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jberger
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues |
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| Syncronoid wrote: |
2.5L GW with not a single problem after 60k+ miles.
| jberger wrote: |
I guess I misread your initial description.
A bog off idle can be a mixture issue. On modified engines especially. At idle the FI is bopping along nicely. Open the throttle and the O2 feedback takes a few moments to catch up with what it's seeing. If your initial AFM baseline is not rich enough then that first few moments will be effected by it. I have worked with quite a few modified Digifant engines that needed AFM adjustment to run correctly just off idle.
J |
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Well, you’ve got one now... |
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Syncronoid
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2012
Posts: 1111
Location: Stanford, CA and Bend, OR
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues |
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| jberger wrote: |
| Syncronoid wrote: |
2.5L GW with not a single problem after 60k+ miles.
| jberger wrote: |
I guess I misread your initial description.
A bog off idle can be a mixture issue. On modified engines especially. At idle the FI is bopping along nicely. Open the throttle and the O2 feedback takes a few moments to catch up with what it's seeing. If your initial AFM baseline is not rich enough then that first few moments will be effected by it. I have worked with quite a few modified Digifant engines that needed AFM adjustment to run correctly just off idle.
J |
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Well, you’ve got one now... |
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'90 Syncro Westy w/GW2.5L |
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Syncronoid
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2012
Posts: 1111
Location: Stanford, CA and Bend, OR
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues |
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To me, little things failing are fine, no way around it, these vehicles are old, them's gonna' happen. The engine itself from GW has been flawless. No leaks or failures with anything they supplied with the engine.
| Syncronoid wrote: |
| jberger wrote: |
| Syncronoid wrote: |
2.5L GW with not a single problem after 60k+ miles.
| jberger wrote: |
I guess I misread your initial description.
A bog off idle can be a mixture issue. On modified engines especially. At idle the FI is bopping along nicely. Open the throttle and the O2 feedback takes a few moments to catch up with what it's seeing. If your initial AFM baseline is not rich enough then that first few moments will be effected by it. I have worked with quite a few modified Digifant engines that needed AFM adjustment to run correctly just off idle.
J |
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Well, you’ve got one now... |
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'90 Syncro Westy w/GW2.5L |
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tjet 
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3533
Location: CA & NM
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues |
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| Did you try that new fuel pump yet? |
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Syncronoid
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2012
Posts: 1111
Location: Stanford, CA and Bend, OR
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues - FIXED!! |
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Update - Fixed!!
So, I replaced the "new" GW fuel injectors that had less than 800 miles on them with my old ones that I had refurbed at Mr. Injector AND got the balls to dive into replacing the fuel pump (thanks tjet). I was a bit nervous working on the fuel line that came from the tank. I don't have all the fancy clamps, but made some for when I changed out my rear heater core and they were fine for the fuel lines.
While changing out the injectors, I damaged the crush washer it the T-piece on the fuel lines on the top of the engine, but a day later I had sourced some annealed copper washers that did the trick (M4 copper washers(burrs)) at ACE Hardware.
I warmed it up to neighborhood running temp (190's) and drove her around. No hesitation! Just saved me hours of travel time and hundreds of $$ from taking it over to Buslab. Once again, feeling even more empowered than before.
Going to send the GW injectors to Mr. Injector to have checked out and keep as spares if OK.
Thanks for all the advice.
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6532
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues - FIXED!! |
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Awesome, Congrats!
Geez, 800 miles is a pretty sad indicator, though. I'd return them.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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tjet
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3533
Location: CA & NM
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues - FIXED!! |
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Right on  My engine had similar symptoms when my fuel pump died driving cross country a couple of years ago (sluggish in West Virginia, then almost dead in Ohio). I could still drive it slow. I installed a ford truck pump thanks to danfromsyr & Jake de Villiers. I need to get the correct Bosch as a spare (ford pump still installed)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664204&highlight= |
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jberger
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues - FIXED!! |
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A little bird told me that a Samba member is offering upgraded (read actual atomization) injectors for the stock digifant system... I have a set on the way to me. He will start a thread shortly I'm sure. Maybe wait for that notice.
J |
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Syncronoid
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2012
Posts: 1111
Location: Stanford, CA and Bend, OR
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues - FIXED!! |
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Does their first name start with "M"? 
| jberger wrote: |
A little bird told me that a Samba member is offering upgraded (read actual atomization) injectors for the stock digifant system... I have a set on the way to me. He will start a thread shortly I'm sure. Maybe wait for that notice.
J |
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'90 Syncro Westy w/GW2.5L |
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jberger
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues - FIXED!! |
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| Syncronoid wrote: |
Does their first name start with "M"?
| jberger wrote: |
A little bird told me that a Samba member is offering upgraded (read actual atomization) injectors for the stock digifant system... I have a set on the way to me. He will start a thread shortly I'm sure. Maybe wait for that notice.
J |
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SteveMc
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2013
Posts: 210
Location: Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues - FIXED!! |
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| Syncronoid wrote: |
| I replaced the "new" GW fuel injectors that had less than 800 miles on them with my old ones that I had refurbed at Mr. Injector AND got the balls to dive into replacing the fuel pump |
So you don’t know if it was the fuel pump or injectors that was causing your hesitation?
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1986 Transporter Single Cab Syncro |
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jimf909
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7466
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues - FIXED!! |
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^^^ That’s how I read it. Science would suggest that the original fuel pump be installed as a test.
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- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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Mark Lewalski
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2010
Posts: 406
Location: Safety Harbor, FL (Tampa Bay)
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:47 am Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues - FIXED!! |
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Yeah, I don't get what the fix actually was...
Fuel injectors? (not likely in my estimation)
or
Fuel pump?
Me personally - I replace one item at a time during troubleshooting so I know what was wrong.
Clarity would be very helpful here.
Mark
_________________
'89 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg "Bluestar" (given to and owned by my son now)
'87 Vanagon Weekender
'74 Thing |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6532
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues - FIXED!! |
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I also lean towards the pump.
Then again I thought it could be a catalytic, or ISIS, so never mind...
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues - FIXED!! |
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me I blame his fuel pump that did the trick.
so much so that in my next tear down and rebuild I'll be installing twin fuel pumps with an A or B switch in the Pass seat pedestal. having issues with a stutter or low power, flip the switch and see if it behaves better.
when I'm on a looooong travel day I don't want to add in changing a fuel pump..
which consequently I've personally done to numerous vans on numerous trips.
for some record. (mine & My travel friends - Scott, Aaron, Rob)
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| Abscate wrote: |
| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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mikemtnbike
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 2795
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues - FIXED!! |
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| jberger wrote: |
A little bird told me that a Samba member is offering upgraded (read actual atomization) injectors for the stock digifant system... I have a set on the way to me. He will start a thread shortly I'm sure. Maybe wait for that notice.
J |
Man, Mr. Injector should be receiving my injectors today to rebuild; while I'm sure I'll be happy with the results, this sounds like a fascinating possibility.
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled  https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6532
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues - FIXED!! |
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| danfromsyr wrote: |
me I blame his fuel pump that did the trick.
so much so that in my next tear down and rebuild I'll be installing twin fuel pumps with an A or B switch in the Pass seat pedestal. having issues with a stutter or low power, flip the switch and see if it behaves better.
when I'm on a looooong travel day I don't want to add in changing a fuel pump..
which consequently I've personally done to numerous vans on numerous trips.
for some record. (mine & My travel friends - Scott, Aaron, Rob)
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You may be onto something Uge, wouldn't that double the horsepower? 
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues - FIXED!! |
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You better hope the check valves are good in both those pumps, or else you'd be introducing a potential pressure loss into the system.
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Syncronoid
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2012
Posts: 1111
Location: Stanford, CA and Bend, OR
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Hesitation Blues - FIXED!! |
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So, I received the injectors back from Bill at Mr. Injector, the ones I had removed from the van that were brand new from GW. 3 of them checked out fine, but one had failed electrical windings and low electrical resistance. Bill said that causes the electrical build up in the winding to be slow to build enough magnetism to pull the armature open causing lower flow. Could this single injector cause the hesitation problems I experienced? The van cruised fine once the RPM's came up.
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'90 Syncro Westy w/GW2.5L |
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